News-Record.com

"After all, where in Guilford County is there a public building or street or anything else named for a black person that is not located in the black community?"

I'm reminded of Massey Street, named for GPD Corporal Joe Massey, a black officer, killed in the line of duty in 1959. Few know the history of the name that adorns that street sign, and it's in a black area of town.
I think it's time we moved beyond this, and honoring Dr. McNair by naming a school in his memory in a non-predominately black neighborhood would have been a good start.
It's a shame some folks can't see beyond their own interests and act for the good of the community.

Mr. Johnson, I don't think you have all the facts. On May 10, the Project Team Committee held a public meeting to choose a name for the new school, located on Reedy Fork Parkway. Reedy Fork Elementary School received the most votes. Dave Burnett sent this information to Kevin Lear.

On May 24, at the school board meeting, someone announced that the findings of the May 10 meeting were incorrect and Ron McNair had the most votes. THIS IS NOT TRUE! Someone in the school system had changed the numbers. Joe Stafford had a group at the May 24 meeting to speak for Dr. McNair. The Reedy Fork Elementary School supporters were not there because everyone knew Reedy Fork had the most votes on May 10. We had no idea they would recommend a different name. The board “recommended” changing the name to Ronald McNair Elementary School at Reedy Fork. The name was not “approved”. The recommendation, once made, had to lay on the table at least 21 days before final adoption, to allow for public comment. The BOE announced they would take comments up until the June 28 meeting. Policy states that, preferably, schools may be named in accordance with geographic location or similarly site-specific identifiers, such as roads, streets, subdivisions or communities. If a person’s name is to be used, it must have broad support from the community affected.

On June 22, Dr. Grier sent the public comments to the BOE. Sixty-eight comments were received. Sixty-two favored Reedy Fork Elementary School, two favored Dr. McNair and two favored using the location and community. On June 28, several citizens from the Northeast district attended the Board Meeting, to support keeping the Reedy Fork Elementary School name.

I am sorry this issue has caused controversy. The name for Reedy Fork Elementary was always about keeping the name we had looked forward to for over four years. The issue was never about Dr. McNair. His race and gender were never a factor. We simply wanted to keep our community name. We did not want to change it to the name of a person.

Had the BOE not changed the findings of the May 10 meeting, and had they followed policy, the name for Reedy Fork Elementary School would have been over in May. I don’t see anything wrong with the current policy, except the BOE does not want to follow it. Over time, members of the BOE will come and go. Many families will live in their communities for generations. The local community should have the biggest input into the name. Now, the BOE is going to change the policy for naming future schools, which will limit the public’s input. The BOE will be in total control and the citizens of the affected communities will have no rights. This is wrong.

Joe Stafford continues to create unnecessary hullabaloo. He needs to find a new hobby. On June 12, Joe Stafford put Randall Jarrell’s name up for the new Northern Elementary School. The BOE accepted his recommendation. I do not know what influence he has with the BOE. The people in the Northern community have until July 10 to get their comments to the BOE. I also don’t understand why you aren’t reporting this issue.

Mr. Johnson, I don't think you have all the facts. On May 10, the Project Team Committee held a public meeting to choose a name for the new school, located on Reedy Fork Parkway. Reedy Fork Elementary School received the most votes. Dave Burnett sent this information to Kevin Lear.

On May 24, at the school board meeting, someone announced that the findings of the May 10 meeting were incorrect and Ron McNair had the most votes. THIS IS NOT TRUE! Someone in the school system had changed the numbers. Joe Stafford had a group at the May 24 meeting to speak for Dr. McNair. The Reedy Fork Elementary School supporters were not there because everyone knew Reedy Fork had the most votes on May 10. We had no idea they would recommend a different name. The board “recommended” changing the name to Ronald McNair Elementary School at Reedy Fork. The name was not “approved”. The recommendation, once made, had to lay on the table at least 21 days before final adoption, to allow for public comment. The BOE announced they would take comments up until the June 28 meeting. Policy states that, preferably, schools may be named in accordance with geographic location or similarly site-specific identifiers, such as roads, streets, subdivisions or communities. If a person’s name is to be used, it must have broad support from the community affected.

On June 22, Dr. Grier sent the public comments to the BOE. Sixty-eight comments were received. Sixty-two favored Reedy Fork Elementary School, two favored Dr. McNair and two favored using the location and community. On June 28, several citizens from the Northeast district attended the Board Meeting, to support keeping the Reedy Fork Elementary School name.

I am sorry this issue has caused controversy. The name for Reedy Fork Elementary was always about keeping the name we had looked forward to for over four years. The issue was never about Dr. McNair. His race and gender were never a factor. We simply wanted to keep our community name. We did not want to change it to the name of a person.

Had the BOE not changed the findings of the May 10 meeting, and had they followed policy, the name for Reedy Fork Elementary School would have been over in May. I don’t see anything wrong with the current policy, except the BOE does not want to follow it. Over time, members of the BOE will come and go. Many families will live in their communities for generations. The local community should have the biggest input into the name. Now, the BOE is going to change the policy for naming future schools, which will limit the public’s input. The BOE will be in total control and the citizens of the affected communities will have no rights. This is wrong.

Joe Stafford continues to create unnecessary hullabaloo. He needs to find a new hobby. On June 12, Joe Stafford put Randall Jarrell’s name up for the new Northern Elementary School. The BOE accepted his recommendation. I do not know what influence he has with the BOE. The people in the Northern community have until July 10 to get their comments to the BOE. I also don’t understand why you aren’t reporting this issue.

Allen, It think the basic problem is once again; people trying to impose PERSONAL political beliefs on people who don't subscribe to them or forcing people into an externally imposed politically-charged controversy in which they haven't the slightest interest.

We saw it with the "choice plan" (excuse me for mentioning the "choice plan" since it's obvious the N&R editors have adopted the old Soviet Union method of dealing with unpleasant history by simply never mentioning it again-not one reference to it in today's editorial on school diversity.)We see it with the Nifong incident and now we see it with the Reedy Fork incident.

You implied the Reedy Fork people had a racial agenda, (just like it was implied of people who rejected the choice plan or the Duke students) You give short shift or ignore the imperatives that were driving these people (like self determination or wanting their children to go to school close to their home) by summarily negating these things and ascribing racial motivations. You don't see that you are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by racilizing the whole thing. By implying that they didn't want to name the school after Ron McNair because of his color YOU are the one who is demeaning him.

Now, I'm not going to insult your intelligence and say there are not people who are hard-core racists who may bring these attitudes to play in these debates but I feel the vast majority of people are not inherent racists and you are slamming them into this category and it happens over and over again.

You said that the schoolboards own guidelines that stated that the people attending the school should have a say was ambiguous? How is this ambiguous?

This attitude by certain members of the schoolboard that they have been ordained by God to enforce their personal beliefs and values on the unenlightened, unwashed, bigoted masses must end. These people either have to leave the board or start doing what they are supposed to be doing and educate the kids.

Sis,
Allen is reporting it because it supports his No.1 agenda. Find racism where it does not exist. This man speaks from both sides of his mouth. He Cries for diversity and then lives in the richest part of Greensboro there is. There is no socioeconomic diversity there.
This Reedy thing has been blown out of proportion and Allen is one of the main causes. He has done this before. He has too much power. He wants diversity in schools just because he feels its the right thing to do. He works like that, no facts just goody goody, it feels right motives. Guilford County will never move forward with this kind of people in a postion of influence.

John, I think you hit the nail on the head there. When will certain people of this county stop trying to enforce their own agenda onto others?

The sad thing is that a bunch of innocent people are branded racists. Just what Allen wants. A nice story to sell more newspapers. What he doesnt realise is that he just makes things worse.

Ditto Ditto Ditto John and Truth....well said!!

It seems Allen and Joe Stafford talk daily and want nothing more than to stir up more UNNECESSARY controversy.

Allen why can't you and Joe put thoughts out there on how to better educate our children or possibly help our BOE....do you really think the name on a school building is going to educate our children? Why are you wasting so much time and energy on this? I can't believe with all the issues in GCS, this is still all you have to talk about.

Here is one for him.

Why do poor children at Grimsley graduate at a lower percentage than at Dudley or Andrews?

Is there too much diversity?

Joe Stafford, Mabel Scott,and the retired professors of A & T University never once brought up race. The people that brought up race were from the Reedy Fork area. The truth sometimes is painful. But the truth is the truth.

On May 24, School Board members brought up race. The people in this district simply wanted to keep our "community" school name. This issue had nothing to do with Dr. McNair's race or gender. Had the Board followed policy, this would never have been an issue.

Geez; here we go again - crying "racism" where none exists.

Certainly, Dr. McNair is an American hero, a true role model and more than worthy of having a school named in his honor. But long before his name was even mentioned, the folks in that community wanted the school named "Reedy Fork Elementary." That's the name of the community and that's the name local residents have wanted for years. Sorry if you and Joe Stafford don't agree, Allen, but the two of you are outnumbered on this one.

But rather than listen to the community's wishes, the school board decided to impose their own name. This wasn't about people rejecting Ron McNair - it was about self-determination and the rights of parents and taxpayers to have a say in the educational process.

The Guilford County School Board could avoid much needless controversy if they would start treating citizens like active partners, not mute ATMs whose only role is to fund the latest pet project. I won't hold my breath for them to change, though.

just saying,

I love what you said

"The Guilford County School Board could avoid much needless controversy if they would start treating citizens like active partners, not mute ATMs whose only role is to fund the latest pet project."

There are dozens, if not hundreds, of examples where this is true. They forget that they were elected to represent the citizens of Guilford County. As a parent, they work for me and they should listen to me!

Somehow being elected to that board makes many feel as if they're almighty and have been given an opportunity to impose their social agendas upon others.

Just remember - we need to vote most of them out in 2008.

NOTICE TO ALL POSTERS WHO POST HERE EXPECTING ANY KIND OF INTERCHANGE WITH THE MAN WHO WRITES N&R EDITORIALS AND POSTS THESE SUBJECTS ON THIS BLOG.

This blog is a bullitin board to post your opinion. Nothing more. Frankly, I feel that we can never come together, so why bother?

F--- It!

I still find it hard to understand the ferocious opposition to the McNair name. I understand the history attached to Reddy Fork but I find it hard, frankly, to grasp the deep emotional attachment some people suddenly seem to have to it.
Help me with that, someone.

As for the school board naming policy, I find it ambiguous in the sense that it essentially invites all constituencies to weigh in on school names but does make it clear whether some opinions matter more than others.
For instance, some people assume that if you live in the Reeddy Fork community, your opinion matters more. The policy does not say that.
Complicating matters is that not all of the students in the school will come from Reedy Fork.

Allen, What part do you not understand?

Help us help you.

Allen, I think you're still reading race into something where it may not exist. The Reedy Fork parents may have very easily opposed naming it in honor of a white hero like Pat Tillman (the Arizona Cardinal who gave up a pro foootball carrer to go to Afghanistan) or Adam Lucas-a Northwest High ROTC grad who was killed in Iraq May 2006, if it was presented in the same manner (in other words-if it was forced down their throats).

Savage is right - I don't think there was any "ferocious opposition" to the McNair name at all.

The opposition stems from the fact the name was forced on the community by the school board, even though residents in that area had registered their support for a different name. By the way, the support for the "Reedy Fork Elementary" name existed almost from the time the school was announced - certainly long before the McNair name was even mentioned.

It's not about the names. It's about the way this was handled. Once again, the Guilford County School Board gets in trouble by not listening to its constituency. What's so hard to understand about that? Not like it doesn't happen all the time.

If Reedy Fork people liked the McNair name so much, why didn't they propose it for another school? Why not put it on the shelf? What are people suppose to think when the leader at Reedy Fork gets up and says he would have had no problem if it had been named after Christie McAulliff? What did he mean? Am I suppose to overlook this?

How, again, was this forced down their throats? Wasn't there a public comment period?
I am hearing different accounts of the project team's vote. What actually happened?

Have you been paying attention? The opposition was not to the name---it was to changing our community school name. We wanted to keep the name we had looked forward to for over four years. We did not want to change it.

The district map for this school was revised in February 2006. The school name on the map is Reedy Fork Elementary.

On May 10, 2007, the name Reedy Fork Elementary School was approved by the Project Team Committee.

Prior to the May 24 board meeting, a list of 89 signatures was presented to the BOE, requesting to keep this name. Had the board followed policy, this issue would have been over in May.

On May 24, Joe Stafford asked the board to change it to Ronald McNair Elementary School. For some reason, the board recommended changing it to Ronald McNair Elementary School at Reedy Fork. This was a "recommendation"---not an "approval". This "recommendation" was put out to allow for public comment. The final decision would be made on June 28. Sixty-eight comments were received. Sixty-two favored Reedy Fork Elementary; four favored Ronald McNair; two favored using the location and community. Over Two Thousand signatures were received by the Board, which supported keeping the Reedy Fork Elementary School name.

On June 28, the board approved the name: Reedy Fork Elementary School.

Now, let's move on to the next school. Joe Stafford will most likely be at tonight's meeting, to change the Northern Elementary School name. I feel sure he will continue to try to name all future schools. He loves to boast that he was responsible for naming schools.

People are entitled to their own opinion. What they are not entitled to is their own set of facts. I have never boasted that I was responsible for naming any school. I did say that I was proud to have suggested that the school (Now called Pilot Elementary) be named for John Kernodle. My idea failed. All the names I have been associated with have failed. It would be nice if you could get your facts straight. Also, it would be courteous if you signed your own name.

Lets don't forget that Ronald McNair had already been proposed by Joe Stafford as the name on the new Northern School, but for some reason he mysteriously withdrew his nomination the end of May to formerly put it on Reedy Fork....it's in the BOE minutes! Why would he do that after the project team had already taken the vote and submitted Reedy Fork Elementary?

How, again, was this forced down their throats? Wasn't there a public comment period?

*********

Allen, the folks in that community have advocated the name "Reedy Fork Elementary" for years. In fact, they've been in favor of that name long before the Ronald McNair name was even mentioned. The problem arose when the School Board ignored those long-standing wishes and gave the school a different name.

As for the public comments, the BOE received 68 comments. Of those, 62 favored the name "Reedy Fork Elementary." I'd say that's a landslide, wouldn't you?

Allen

If you'll go to Chalkboard section and read their editorial on July 5th...in that editorial is the documents that show what happened at the projet team meeting and how the votes went. It clearly shows Reedy Fork had the most votes and that is what was submitted to the BOE. On May 24th this was the name submitted and should have been the name approved if the BOE had followed their own policy. That should have been the end of this issue.

Now why isn't anybody (anybody being you) questioning what happened there?

Joe Stafford submitted Ronald McNair. Now he had already formerly submitted Ronald McNair's name as his nomination for the new Northern Elementary School. Keep in mind this is on May 24th. Then on May 28th he submits a formal letter "withdrawing" his nomination for Ronald McNair at Northern Elementary.

Are you starting to understand any of it yet...or do you still need help?

For 4 years we have called this school Reedy Fork Elementary and for 4 years the BOE has let us, and not once said "that's not official"...they even had it on their web site. Now out of the blue with 2 months before the school is to open this name comes out of nowhere. When I say this name....it could have been any name...it wasn't that it was Ronald McNair, it could have been any name (other than Reedy Fork of course).

As you can see with Joe's nomination and withdrawal for Ronald McNair at the new Northern Elementary, it shows this was not a name that had been in the plans for Reedy Fork very long.

Something smells fishy...but I'm sure you'll disagree :)

Just Saying:
So, the decision should rest on who mobilizes the most speakers to show at a meeting?

Just Watching:
Let's say you're right ... that community sentiment says Reedy Fork over McNair.
Let's also say the school board/administration managed the process.
Let's also say race was not a factor. After all, the Northern High folks rejected Edward R. Murrow as a name, and Murrow was a white guy.
Can someone help me understand why so many people found the McNair name so unappealing and made it such a federal case?
Would it have been that awful a thing?

There you go again....you get caught with the facts and move on. What happened to you didn't understand? Did you read the project team letter? You still don't in the slightest understand why we supported Reedy Fork? Do you have an answer as to why Joe withdrew his nomination for Northern 4 days AFTER he put the same name up for Reedy Fork?

You don't want to address those issues anymore??

Just a FYI your buddy Joe is the one that made it "such a federal case" to use your words...I highly doubt that it was a "federal case." We never found the name unappealing, that's what you and Joe can't seem to get off of. It was never the name, it could have been any name and the response would have been the same.

Now how about you really being honest and say you've started these blogs all on your own and had no "urging" from Joe. He hasn't called you or emailed you (with his issues???) to get all of this rolling!!

On June 28, the board members spent a great deal of time chastising the people of the Reedy Fork area for wasting so much time on "the name of a school". Had the board followed policy, Reedy Fork would have been named in May. Joe Stafford nominated Randall Jarrell to replace Northern Elementary School. On June 12, the board accepted his nomination. The name has been out for public comment. Tonight, at the board meeting, Joe Stafford and two other speakers spoke for Randall. One person spoke for Northern. The one person who spoke for Northern turned in a petition from people in the Northern community. The board wasted no time in switching back to Northern Elementary School. The board did not criticize the Northern community for wanting to change their earlier recommendation for Randall Jarrell. They were not critized for wasting time on "naming a school". This is very interesting and does smell fishy!

The school board reversed itself on another school naming Tuesday, dumping the late poet Randall Jarrell and opting instead for Northern Elementary School.
Not to worry. We'll run out of directions before we do new schools.

So, the decision should rest on who mobilizes the most speakers to show at a meeting?

**********

Allen, I was responding to your question! You said "Wasn't there a public comment period?" And I responded that yes, there was and 62 of 68 comments were in favor of the name being "Reedy Fork Elementary."

Sorry if the facts are getting in the way here.

Just Saying:
So you think the current process is clear and effective, and that the problem is the school board?

Allen, I don't know if you read David Brooks's last column, but it speaks to the issue here. It's tribalism. "Reedy Fork" is the name adopted by the Reedy Fork tribe--a collection of individuals spatially connected and further grounding its identity in an institution (a school). Then an outside force, the school board, appears and gives the tribe a different name, one taken from a man from a different tribe racially and institutionally. Whatever the Reedy Fork tribe's feelings toward him, Ronald McNair isn't one of THEM, nor are THEY making the selection. They have lost control, are mad as hell, and aren't going to take it anymore.

In a globablizing world, people assiduously try to cultivate locality, a sense that OUR place is concrete, intelligible, palpable, and most of all, OURS. The News and Record is built on this premise. But your locality is the region and the city, not the neighborhood, and so neighborhood tribalism looks primitive to you.

Imagine that the federal government announced that to receive federal funding, Greensboro would have to be renamed Clintonville or Reaganville. If I like or identify with Clinton, I may be less opposed to the change than my Republican neighbor, but we will both resent the outside intervention because it threatens the perception of agency--that we control our immediate environment, wherever its boundaries are drawn.

Allen, I think your implication here-the dichotomy and mutual exclusivity between "clear and effective" and the schoolboard is valid.

Allen is trying to say that all the Reedy Fork folk are racists.

Thats all. Everybody is racist and we need to be continuously reminded of that fact.

Well done, Brian444!!!

Brian, I did read Brooks' column. It was written with a tone of resignation, as I recall, that the best integration we probably can hope for is a degree of tribalism.
But I see your point, and agree that the perception that outsiders and bureaucrats were trying to dictate to a community against its wishes was a factor.

So you think the current process is clear and effective, and that the problem is the school board?

***********

I never said that, Allen. But since you asked....

The current policy may well have its problems. But who created that policy? And who administers the process? The Guilford County School Board, that's who. It's not like these policies appear out of thin air.

So if there is a problem with the policy, it stands to reason that the school board is to blame. Doesn't it?

Correct. The policy should change. Even the board acknowledges that.
I'd like to see clearer guidelines for names.
For instance, maybe elementary schools could take the names of places.
Maybe middle and high schools could bear the names of people.
I'd suggest ditching the directional names altogether. They are meaningless.
In terms of process, maybe the entire communiuty could nominate names (that meet clearly spelled out criteria), but a committee of parents and other residents in the school district could make the final recommendation to the school board.

Change Northwest to Diversless.

Change Dudley to Oneculaonli.

Change Smith to Purkidsonli.

Now that would mean something.

And please, change High Point Central to Kearnsville High!!

I propose Northwest to be called:

Allen Johnson High .

Now that would cause a stir.

Allen any chance on posting a strand on today's editorial on the UNC educational study. Would ask that you please not delegate it to the Chalkboard since the ladies down there don't write editorials (at least I don't think they do)and it wouldn't be fair to them.

Will do.