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More on the sidewalk dining issue

We met Friday with Downtown Greensboro Inc. President and CEO Ed Wolverton to discuss the brewing debate over sidewalk dining in downtown Greensboro.

I also took a reader’s advice and checked out the thoughtful post about this issue by Cara Michele over at her blog.

Finally, colleague Elma Sabo and I had a chance to view a police videotape of a Wednesday night crowd downtown and the challenges it presents.

The good news is that, even in the middle of the week, huge crowds of young people are coming to the center city for a good time.

The bad news is that the crowds have grown to the point where they threaten to overwhelm the ability of police and nightclub security to handle it all.

Cara Michele recalls what she has seen at night downtown, outside the club Heaven, the restaurant Carmine's and the Cafe Much:

There are a lot of people coming and going on this block after midnight (there are a number of other businesses in this same block), and when the bars close, there are at least 1000+ people on the sidewalk in one small area at the same time.

There’s about 3-5 feet of clearance between Much’s ropes and the trees planted by the street. When people can’t get through that small space because of the crowds on the sidewalk, they walk out into the street, which is also crowded with vehicles. I’ve had to stop and wait for people to pass by at this spot many times, and had to walk single file behind people, with a lot of “Excuse me,” and stepping to the side and trying to get out of people’s way — and this is a lot earlier in the evening, not late night. As it gets closer to closing time, police sometimes have to block the street off with police cars to keep pedestrians from being hit by vehicles. This happens on a regular basis on weekend nights. And keep in mind that not everyone walking around down there is sober, so it gets… interesting



In other words, as our editorial said, this isn’t a sidewalk dining issue. Sidewalk dining is a minor symptom of a much broader issue.

The police video depicts some of the problems those crowds can pose: traffic, litter, loitering, obstacles to emergency personnel getting to where they need to be in the case of a crime or injury.

But the trick is for city leaders to address those issues without squeezing the fun out of the place.

Remember, this is a problem we wanted: young people coming downtown to have a good time ... on a weeknight. Before most college students had returned to town.

One longer-range solution is a lesson city leaders learned on a tour of Greenville, S.C.’s, very successful center city: the value of wider sidewalks.

When the time comes to redesign the streetscape ... and it will ... Elm Street could use more room for walking and dining. Ironically, one failed approach in the late 1970s and early 1980s were downtown “malls.” Both Greensboro and Winston-Salem tried the approach, before declaring it a failure.

Some other possible solutions that surfaced during our conversation with Wolverton:
Adding police to help manage the crowd. Charlotte. helps stretch resources by pairing new police academy graduates with veteran officers. Charlotte merchants help pay for it through money raised by special downtown tax districts.

Closing downtown --- or parts of it, at least, at a certain hour. Some cities set curfews entertainment districts, but that some counterproductive in Greensboro. After working so hard to build traffic downtown, do we really want to shut it down?

Allowing night clubs to stay open later, all night if they want. so that they aren’t compelled to release large crowds onto the streets all at once.

Restricting traffic on some streets to only pedestrians. This has been done successfully in many cities ... including Greensboro.

Ironically, Wolverton was seeing the fruits of his labors here during an earlier stint with Downtown Greensboro Inc. It was on his watch that DGI endorsed the allowance of sidewalk dining in the city in the first place.

People are coming dowtown in droves. Young people. Greensboro's image as a dead, dull place where good times come to shrivel up and die is history.

The question is how we choose to handle so much of a good thing. With wit and creativity or with heavy hands and overkill?


Comments (17)

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skeet club savage said:

The only thing worse than this would be to have NOBODY down town.

They should just close Elm St. from Friendly to the Railroad tracks on Friday/ Sat. nights like a Beale St. in Memphis. You could probably get away with just closing from ten to 2 or 2:30 am.
You probably wouldn't even have to do it in the winter mos. This would make it ten times easier for the police because they wouldn't have to worry about auto traffic issues and also much safer and easier for pedestrians.

axhandle said:

As someone who really enjoys the rare opportunities I get to go downtown, I think this is a great problem. I think the best solution listed above would be to let the clubs stay open later. There is a lot of fun to be had after 2 am.

Allen Johnson said:

Good point, Savage.
Cruising is a big issue downtown that is growing worse. With the streets blocked off people could park in the decks and lots and walk to their destinations. Ours is a small, walkable downtown, plus we need the exercise anyway.

brian444 said:

Sadly, many of the purported "young people" doewntown aren't young at all, but rather 30-, 40-, and 50-somethings pretending to be 20-somethings. Whenever I go downtown at night, I'm appalled by how many people are my age.

Of course, the commonsense solutions proposed above make sense--doubtlessly too much sense to be adopted. On the other hand, I can't see that the pedestrian/vehicle problem is that serious. Pedestrians are like bike riders; they'll get out of the way if you drive aggressively enough.

Allen Johnson said:

Brian:
I'll be sure to stay away from downtown when you're driving.
As for age, you're like me. You probably go there early. Stay out past, say, 1 a.m., and you'll see a drastic shift in the demographics.

brian444 said:

Well, I do have to be home at 9:30 for my warm milk. And just so you know it's me coming, look and listen for the flame red Prius with the straight pipes.

Thoughts for your penny said:

What a wonderful problem. We should run with this ball. We need some forward thinking and lots of brainstorming.

Close part of Elm on weekend nights. Put a band in the street on weekends. Allow for dancing. Set up food kiosks. Put benches on Elm. The best thing is that none of this takes millions of dollars to capitalize on an already hot spot in Greensboro. We could make Elm at Friendly a state-wide destination for weekend travelers.

A couple of years ago I stayed at a hotel one block from Beale Street (just to go to Beale Street at night) and you could hear the music through the windows. No one was complaining about noise or the curfew. Memphis knew which side their bread was buttered.

Thoughts for your penny said:

...and we could do busy weeknights too....

Allen Johnson said:

One thing to bear in mind, also: We're were getting these enormous crowds while most of the college students were away.

skeet club savage said:

Asheville uses a similar selective street closing thing. Certain hrs. certain days. etc.

Greensboro is actually a better location for a music mecca. Asheville is a little too far from the eastern seaboard. We have the covergence of I-40 and I-85. We have a better climate. We are located right smack in the middle of several outdoor music festivals Merlefest, Shakori Hills (twice a year) and the Charlie Poole thing in Rockingham co. The Piedmont has a pretty viable alt-country scene with the Avett Bros. Southern Cult on the Skids etc. and has great local blues and other type music etc.

It's the Florida thing from a couple years ago and it could happen.

skeet club savage said:

Forgot Daughtry.

Allen Johnson said:

Good points all, Savage. All this agreeing with you lately is making me nervous.

Anonymous said:

Thank you, Allen. It sounds like somewhere along the way, I think you may have got the wrong idea about the Savage, however it is understood that in N&R World, anybody who disagrees with establishment GC gov't / GCS puddin'headed race-pandering policies is considered the enemy, no matter what their aspirations for the region, and most of us have come to just accept this.

Allen Johnson said:

Savage, just when I thought you were going soft on me ...
That is you, isn't it?

skeet club savage said:

Allen, it is. And I was just trying soothe your anxiety.

just saying said:

It figures. -- our esteemed city leaders have deemed that a thriving downtown business district is now a "problem."

Yep. People coming downtown to spend money, create jobs and have a good time. Sounds exactly like the kind of thing that calls for government interference.

Here's an idea -- for once, let's not ruin a good thing by regulating it to death.

Allen Johnson said:

I'm hopeful that they will be careful on this one, and sensitive to how delicate this issue is.

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