News-Record.com

Sarah Palin not only favors pro-life positions, she also favors abstinence-only sex education.

One might consider her daughter's pregnancy an opportunity to discuss that particular policy, pro and con, but apparently both campaigns are going to suggest it should be off limits.

So let's see if I have my moral bearings right on this one: It was okay for Palin to pimp the fact she just gave birth to a baby with Down's Syndrome in order to illustrate her anti-abortion credentials, but it's unseemly to talk about the older child in the context of an equally charged debate.

Whichever side of those two discussions you're on, that seems a little inconsistent.

Hey, Mark, abstinence is the most effective protection against pregnancy. As a matter for fact it is 100% effective. People just have to apply it for it to work.

So, Allen, the Palins are bad parents because they expressed their unconditional love for their daughter rather than publicly scold her, huh? Yeah, that's pretty bad parents alright. How dare they not publicly embarrass her in front of America? How dare they?

Geesh. Can't you find something else to diminish Sarah Palin with Allen? Really. I am sure that you will find other things as the Borking of Sarah Palin proceeds.

Why don't you guys report and speculate about Joe Biden's son and brother being sued for defrauding someone out of millions of dollars? Isn't that newsworthy since Biden is a VP candidate? Or is that a private matter?

Stormy, if Sarah Palin had been critical of her daughter's pregnancy, you know that the mainstream media would be talking about how she's obviously a cruel mother who doesn't support her daughter in a time of need.

Honestly, no matter what Palin does, she's in a no-win situation. The media has decided it doesn't like her, so she's not going to get a fair shake.

I don't think so. There is a way to say: "I don't approve of what you and your boyfriend have done. But I still love you unconditionally and will be there for you."
Caring parents do that all the time.

Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but I imagine Bristol's parents expressed their disappointment to her in private. Which is, I believe, the right place for it to be done.

The official statement is very carefully worded so as to express support for Bristol without condoning her actions. She acknowledged that her daughter and the baby's father made a decision that will result in difficulties.

Why would the parents have to publicly state that teen pregnancy is not a good thing? Can't we assume they feel that way?

Because this is the vice president (possibly) of the United States.
She is a role model and has accepted a place in the public spotlight.
Given her fierce stances on abstinence-only education and abortion, this does not seem that hard a stand to take to me.
And, as I posted above, it could be done in a loving way, without sounding unduly harsh to her daughter.

Stormy:

You're factually accurate there: not having sex is a great way to keep from getting pregnant. And for those teenagers who go that route, it will work 100 percent of the time.

The debate over abstinence only education is whether it is realistic or effective if you want to prevent teen pregnancy. Even if there is pretty broad agreement teenagers would be better off waiting to have sex (I think there is) the question is will they? Obviously, in the Palin case, they did not.

So here you have a proponent of a public policy position that says the only acceptable way to prevent teen pregnancy is to tell young people, "don't have sex," and her daughter illustrates the failure of that message. So might it not be valid to explore, what went wrong there?

Makes McCain & Palin all the more real for
me - 46 years ago I had just graduated from high school and my 17 year old high school girlfriend was pregnant with my now 46 year
old daughter - the girlfriend and I soon got married and the new wife went on to achieve
a community college nursing degree and I later achieved a Guilford College Bachelor's degree.
Despite a rocky seven year marriage I would change absolutely nothing. That 45 year old daughter and her 43 year old sister have yielded eight grandchildren who range from
age 20 to age four. My 45 year old conceived out-of-wedlock daughter is a proud University of Georgia graduate and is married to a top-notch guy who holds a UGA MBA. Last week the oldest granddaughter started her freshman year at Appalachian State - if all the folks who had sex before marriage voted for McCain & Palin, Obama would be lucky to get ten percent of the total vote. I'm now 64 years old and the only thing I regret is the sex I didn't have -

So, Allen, your wording would be something like, "Although we support our daughter, we do not condone her experimentation with sexuality outside of wedlock." Or, "like thousands of teenagers who reject the lessons of abstinence, our daughter . . . "? Or what? How, precisely, would a statement like the one you want be worded?

Personally, I don't see any imperative to make a policy statement out of a comment on a family matter. In fact, I'm impressed that Palin avoided the chance to craft a plank out her daughter's situation.

Also don't agree that Palin is "pimping" her child with Downs. I doubt that she had the child as a political statement of any kind; at worst, we can convict her of practicing what she preaches.

Less faces it, this a game liberals play. Allen, if the republicans brought out that Obama, father was trained Muslim terrorist, you would play the game the other way. I think Obama association with Bill Ayres carries a lot more weight, than Palin daughter, having sex. This girl having a baby does not effect me. Ayres blowing me to hell does.
Mark, how many daughters have gotten pregnant, that went against family values?
Now go back and write us a story about a NC congressman, that his wife left him, and what the rumors are. Not really, I feel this is no one business, I just said that to point out how bias you are.

Brian, as I posted above:
"We don't approve of what our daughter and her boyfriend have done. But we still love her unconditionally and will be there for her."

Doug J.:
According to snopes.com, the Obama terrorist father stuff is patently false.
Do you have evidence that you're right and they're wrong?

I don't care if you agree with Governor Palin or not, but leave her family out of it. Trust me you don't want to go there. If I see that anybody on here media or not keeps attacking her family. I will attack your family and make their life a living hell

I don't care if you agree with Governor Palin or not, but leave her family out of it. Trust me you don't want to go there. If I see that anybody on here media or not keeps attacking her family. I will attack your family and make their life a living hell

I don't beleive Governor Palin was the best VP choice and I don't really care if you disagree with her or not. But I'm telling you to go after her on the issues not on her family problems. If I see that anybody on here keeps attacking her family, I will expose you and your family (truth or not) in a ruthless viscious way. I don't care if you're an average person, media, or work for the city. All your family history will be exposed. So you'd be wise to BACK OFF!!!!

Hmmm, does the N&R realize that someone has just issued threats on one of its blogs?

Mr. Torrente:
You are aware that threats are not acceptable on this blog, even in jest?

Mr. Johnson and to whoever I offended by my post,

In noway whatsoever did I mean what i said as a threat. I guess I used the wrong choice of words. I just meant, that people should stick to the issues and not make personal attacks against innocent families that have nothing to do with the politics and ideas of their parents. The attacks on Governor Palin may or may not be justified, but when you go after her or any politician's family thats out of bounds and an area you shouldn't get into. I guess in the heat of the moment you tend to mis speak and make ill adviced statements. Again, I would like to apologize for my words and to anyone who took what I said the wrong way.

Pablo Torrente, way to live up to the crazed right wing Republican stereotype. Why is it when right wingers want to express their views they resort to violence...you know like Tim McVeigh, Eric Rudolph blowing up abortion clinics, others assassinating civil rights leaders, and that crazy guy a few months ago who went into a what he thought was a "liberal" church and started shooting. I'm disgusted by the hate created by the republican party and carried out by people like Pablo...how can anyone support this cancerous republican party is beyond me. Thank God that a shift in this country is taking place and people are finally waking up and turning away from the right wing.

Independent:
Please give Pablo a break. He has admitted to going over the top in his comments.
Let's get back to the thread, if you don't mind.
Thanks.

John McCain cheated on his wife with a much younger woman and no one sees the bigger issue that he decides to choose a much younger woman for VP and declares her his "soul mate"? Why don't these facts come up more often?
This site, http://www.cheatingjohns.com , has it right and talks about both sides in a neutral manner. What McCain did was much worse than what Palin's daughter did or even what John Edwards did, yet McCain gets a free pass.
Once a cheater, always a cheater...McCain can't be trusted!

Independent Voter--
I'm not sure one should characterize the far right--or the far left, for that matter--in those kinds of terms. I know people on both ends who are law-abiding
citizens and who don't threaten people.

With all due respect Mr. Johnson Pablo stated: "I will expose you and your family (truth or not) in a ruthless viscious way. I don't care if you're an average person, media, or work for the city. All your family history will be exposed. So you'd be wise to BACK OFF!!!!"
This IS a threat and to come back after he posted it three times and defend him is disturbing. This is my point though...republicans say one thing, follow it up with an "oops, sorry" and then it's as if it didn't happen. Just like with Sarah Palin...who is against any education that isn't abstinence, and then when her daughter fails her own policy and beliefs, she issues this happy-go-lucky statement and then we're all supposed to forget the innate hypocrisy of the matter.

I'm not defending Pablo. I'm simply saying it's time to move on. So, please, lets move on.

Sex education has been in the schools for nearly 40 years now. Have unwed teen pregnancy rates gone up or down during that time?

That's not to say that sex education is bad or abstinance education is necessarily the way to go. However, clearly the issue is far more complicated than liberals would have you believe.

After all, if sex education was the lone answer, we would've solved the teen pregnancy problem a long time ago.

How about some levity on this squawkbox?

Palin could have just said, "My views regarding abstinance only sex education and anti-abortion still stand." Then "I love my daughter, however, and support her in her difficult decision."

That way she has continued to stand with the issue as she has billed herself, and has not diminished her daughter in any way.

DUH. It can't be that hard. I think the whole McCain campaign was caught off guard by the wiggy media reaction to all the revelations, that frankly don't fit into the stereotype of "Republican."

I am not a critic of the media but a huge fan. I just think sometimes there is a desire to stretch out what is not really newsworthy.

Teenage motherhood happens all the time. It's a big deal because.....???

By the way, I am a "liberal" by most standards, and surely by the standards of some posters on this blog. I am not however, a monolith.

Allen--

I completely disagree with you. Her daughter is probably already humiliated enough without mom piling on more humiliation. This is not a teachable moment for the nation--this is a private family matter that Palin felt compelled to divulge because of extraordinary circumstances.

I am very surprised that the N&R and other publications continue to use Palin's daughter's pregnancy to score not-so-subtle political/moral points. I am not conservative but this particular media coverage does not seem right--even to me. I am convinced we are going to see a conservative backlash at the polls in November.
.

I just find it funny how when Democrats attack a politician's family theres no uproar. When The Daily Kos wrote in the last week that the baby wasn't Bristol Palin's it was really her mothers. When on the cover of US Weekly it has a picture of Governor Palin holding her baby with the caption " Babies, Lies, and Scandals." When a well known newspaper publishes the Republican are going to use the downs baby for sympathy votes. When somebody edited a picture of Bristol by putting a beer in her hand. Theres silence from the left. I give Senator Obama credit, I believe he was sincere when he came out and said that he'd fire anybody he found attacking Governor Palin's family. I may not agree with his policies, but overall he's a classy person and a good man. Independent voters who will decide this election (wich will be the closest of all time) are turned off by smears against politician's families. in 2004 John Kerry lost thousands of independent votes when during a VP debate, John Edwards attacked VP Cheney's daughter for being a lesbian. That's one of the main reasons Bush beat Kerry. True there are some fools on the right like Michael Savage and Neil Boortz who get paid to attack Democrats all day, but you never see top brass Republicans going to fundraisers sponsored by them. I don't believe that honest Americans hate Michelle Obama like some Democrats hate Governor Palin and her family just because they disagree. Nobody has attacked Mrs. Obama cause she's black or believes in Black Liberation Theology. They attack her on her "Bitter" and "America is mean" comments. My advice to Dems, is to go after the issues not the attacks that disenfranchise you from mainstream America. Look at yourselves and ask yourselves, "Why have we only won three elections in the last 32 years?" Bill Clinton said at The Democratic Convention, that most Americans want The Democratic Philosophy. Ask yourself "Why do we keep losing?" That's all I got to say about that subject. Lets move on and everybody have a good day

Oh an I AM NOT a Republican. I'm a registered Independant!!

just saying, the Bush administration's own report on the subject showed that abstinence education is essentially a boondoggle. When compared to their peers, kids in such programs were just as likely to have sex, and those who had sex lost their virginity at about the same age and had the same number of sexual partners. Unfortunately, the federal government has spent billions on this regardless of the fact that it doesn't work. Don't look for solid research like this to sway the true believers.

And by the way, one of those true believers is Sarah Palin. Abstinence-only education doesn't seem to have worked in her family, either.

On the other hand, according to the report I just cited, young Bristol probably would be pregnant now with or without abstinence-only sex education. Unlike DARE, which reputable studies have shown can actually increase the likelihood of youth drug abuse, no one's claiming that abstinence-only programs make things worse. They just don't (on average) make things better.

Andrew persuades me to support an abstinence-only sex ed program. I'm amazed by the existence of a government program that simply doesn't work. Obama supporters should be cheered by his yeoman work with the Annenberg Foundation, which similarly only wasted millions of dollars without doing any good. Let's spend our money on those programs instead of on those that do actual harm.

On Obama father, I have read this in several books. I can not believe all of them are wrong. Could be but I doubt it. I noticed you did not go after Ayers, which is a know fact. now was the biggest deal a baby, are Ayers. I hope liberals keep up the attack, my wife has changed sides.
Now my question is, if the rumors are true about this congress man, which should be in the press?
If a baby is fair game, then the congress should be fair game. On top of that this girl is not running for anything. My opinion neither.However if you are going to exploit this baby, you should exploit the congressman. Hell if a baby sells newspapers, are congressman should have them beating your doors down.

With all due respect, Doug, you need to do better than that.
When you make such serious charges, the least you should do is check your facts.

I'd be interested in knowing what "books" Doug J. has read that Obama's father was trained as a Muslim terrorist.

just saying, the Bush administration's own report on the subject showed that abstinence education is essentially a boondoggle. When compared to their peers, kids in such programs were just as likely to have sex, and those who had sex lost their virginity at about the same age and had the same number of sexual partners.

*****************

If you'll re-read my original post, you'll note I said, "That's not to say that sex education is bad or abstinance education is necessarily the way to go."

However, it's clear that sex education isn't working, either. And billions have been spent on that as well. It's been just as much of a boondoggle, right?

I just wonder what the "Moral Majority" is saying behind close doors on this teen pregnancy?

I heard a wise person say that strong leadership starts at home.If it's difficult to be commander in your own home then how can you command the nation?In other words,I had a friend that was a Police Officer and he literally had the baddest kids in the neighborhood yet he went out everyday to enforce the law.I would think"why can't he control those bad kids"? It wasn't long before one of his boys got arrested.You get my drift?It's like Brittany Spears mother attempting to write a book on how to rise children.

We don't expect teenage white girls from middle class families to become pregnant so when it happens the media puts a different spin on these type stories.

I see the tragedy of black teen pregnancy all the time but it seems to be more excepted by society.