News-Record.com

The Hell you say -
I've got a wonderful college educated (graduated from UGA) 45 year old daughter (the mom of four of my eight grandchildren) who I, at age 19, conceived along with a 17 year old high school senior (cute little cheerleader) way back in 1963. My 45 year old daughter who was conceived out-of-wedlock & born-to-a-teen-age-mother now lives in Madison, Wisconsin with her MBA (UGA) husband and their four school age children - I would have missed so very very much without this long-ago teen age pregnancy. And btw, I too am very very big on personal responsibility!

What would be the point of being a teen-ager if you couldn't have sex???

And do not forget that the coming messiah was born to a teen-age mother.

Holden:
If you're referring to Obama, that's right. And if you read his memoirs, he makes it clear that his upbringing entailed additional challenges, included poverty, because of his parents' choice.

Allen--

Perhaps you need to move on with this issue as it relates, in particular, to the candidates personal
lives Indeed, teenage pregnancy is a huge problem; however,it is apparent that none of the candidates wants to be the poster boy/poster girl for teenage pregnancy.

Can you blame them? I would prefer to keep my private life separate from my public life, if I were them.

I

Are they really doing that?

You have a valid point there.

But, after all is said and done, everyone--
including the candidates--tries to keep private what they want to keep private. None of the candidates give any indication of jumping on this bandwagon.

I don't agree with your expectation of Palin holding her daughter "accountable."
Most of the time, the best way to hold a son or daughter accountable is to let them experience the natural consequences of a bad decision.
I would say that Miss Palin will have plenty of those keeping her up at night.

I have a grandchild we love to death. Far better than Mr.Biden problem, I hear he has a drug problem in his family, and a relative being sued for fraud. Sadly we do not live in a perfect world. So maybe tomorrow Mr. Biden will go on tv and tell us about his family. in real life, its no one business.

A few random thoughts:

Yes, we should do more to stigmatize teenage pregnancy, even if we don't use scarlet letters. Basic point of the column is sound.

No, I don't see the imperative for Palin to do that in this context. I expect she has privately, and that's where I'd leave it if I were the parent. Using your daughter as an example of a social problem seems wrong to me.

There's a big--but not absolute--difference in teenage pregnancies that end in marriage and those that don't. I have two neices that come from the former, and those marriages were about par for the course: one couple divorced after 20 years, one's still happily married. No doubt there's still a statistical penalty even with marriage, but it's mitigated substantially from single parenthood.

On the public/private issue, that's a good question. Obama and Palin have both "used" their families to present desirable images, but both want to "protect" their families (at least their kids) from further media scrutiny (as did the Clintons). If you're advertising yourself as super-dad or super-mom, does that mean the kid is fair game? Only after they're, say, 18? Here, I think a hands-off approach is more desirable than not, even if it means swallowing the politicized image of the happy family. Put more bluntly, I would favor giving candidates a good bit of leeway in how they present their family situation. We wouldn't want the classmates of Obama's daughters, for example, interrogated regarding rumors of the girls' elitism. "Has Sacha ever made fun of anyone for wearing clothes from Wal-Mart?"

Kudos to Obama and Biden for their responses. But (being cynical) I wonder if there is polling behind it?

I see your point, Brian, but the issue gets murkier when candidates try to have it both ways.
For instance, Palin referred to her youngest son's Down syndrome in her convention speech and followed that with a statement that she'll advocate in the White House for families of special-needs children.
That's an admirable stance, but it is holding up her own child as an example of a problem.
If families are indeed private, when should you and should you not inject them into the public discourse?
When it's politically convenient?

It appears that teen pregnancy is ok if your mother is the Republican vice-president nominee and of course if you're white.

Women of color has been the face of teenage pregnancy in the past. Some carried the burden of social shame.

Our children represent us as well as we represent them, the good, the bad and the ugly.
Gov. Palin's teenage daughter's pregnancy is a direct reflection on how she was reared.

Where is the silent "Moral majority" that was so prevalent in the Republican party in the 1980's?

I need to preface my remarks with the fact that
I am not conservative.

There is an issue lurking here about fairness in the media dealing with Gov. Palin.

The News and Record published essentially the same article twice about Gov. Palin's church supporting Focus on the Family'
effort to "convert gays into heterosexuals through prayer." The article is in the Saturday, September 6, edition on page A5 and in the Monday, September 8. edition on page B5. What's up with that? Even though my views differ wildly from Focus on the Family, fair is fair in reporting and this is not fair. Am I missing something?

In the News and Record's Friday, September 5 edition, there is an article entitled, "McCain campaign denies VP candidate had an affair." Apparently the illustrious (yes, I'm being sarcastic) National Enquirer printed something about an alleged affair Palin had and the News and Record felt like it had to pick that up and dignify it with an article on page A2 (A2!). Why isn't the News and Record picking up the two-headed alien stories too?

First, please know that I am totally capable of reading an article about Focus on the Family just once and drawing my own conclusions.

Second, I am totally incapable of understanding why the News and Record to stoops so low as to repeat innuendo and unsubstantiated rumor from the National Enquirer and camouflage it as a news article.

Third, no matter what my political persuasion is, I need the News and Record to be fair and above board in its reporting and choices of articles.

Thoughts, we should not have published the church article this morning. It was an oversight on our part. The editor working simply didn't see it in Saturday's paper. Sorry about that.

We published the reference to the National Enquirer for two reasons: one, the John Edwards story taught us something, and, two, the McCain campaign took the time to officially deny it.

"If families are indeed private, when should you and should you not inject them into the public discourse?
When it's politically convenient?"

If it is okay to use the fact that your child is going to Iraq as evidence that your family is patriotic, then why is it NOT okay to point out other family issues? You can't have it both ways.

Yes, I do agree that it should not affect Palin in her quest for vice presidency because you can be the best parent and still have a child do something that is frowned upon.
But in the same content, it is not okay for teens to have sex, unprotected sex of that matter, because they are not mature enough to bear the responsibilities that come with a child. But for the simple fact that Palin and her family don't approve of the pregnancy but are going to support Bristol still, shows a lot character and loyalty that she will not abandon you.

Yes, I do agree that it should not affect Palin in her quest for vice presidency because you can be the best parent and still have a child do something that is frowned upon.
But in the same content, it is not okay for teens to have sex, unprotected sex of that matter, because they are not mature enough to bear the responsibilities that come with a child. But for the simple fact that Palin and her family don't approve of the pregnancy but are going to support Bristol still, shows a lot character and loyalty that she will not abandon you.

Yes, I do agree that it should not affect Palin in her quest for vice presidency because you can be the best parent and still have a child do something that is frowned upon.
But in the same content, it is not okay for teens to have sex, unprotected sex of that matter, because they are not mature enough to bear the responsibilities that come with a child. But for the simple fact that Palin and her family don't approve of the pregnancy but are going to support Bristol still, shows a lot character and loyalty that she will not abandon you.

I was a teen parent and it was very hard. My family & parent's really glued together to help me but I had no clue on sex education. I got pregnant the first time I had sex. People tend to look at you different and react to you different & it hurts. Especially the ones who have the degrees or upper class but forget how they were when they were young. I had a wonderful mother and she was great but it still happen & I made my daughter in less than 5 minutes. I had friends who had abortions or were forced to give the child up but I had my daughter who is 25 now & she is a college graduate & I am one to. My daughter was in national honor society & I made sure my daughter knew of my struggle & how it affected my life. Parents can only pray that their child do fine and make the right choices so leave children alone & fight with compassion & quit being so judgemental when it comes to others people kids & look up under your own roof & if you don't have kids think about you as a teen and see that everyone has issues facing them the problem is what is your issue that you are hiding or don't want anyone to know about! This young lady is going to need prayer & she is growing up before the eyes of everyone & people are cruel. This is not democratic or republican this is a mother & father issue & their child. Life is not fair but remember what if it was your child? people always say not my child maybe not your child in front of you but when kids are out of parents sight thats when peer pressur hits. This young lady needs support as any teen in this situation does! I had a beautiful family & they really supported me and I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for them & I know it. You are as strong as your weakest link but links can be built stronger so never give up on a teen!

I was a teen parent and it was very hard. My family & parent's really glued together to help me but I had no clue on sex education. I got pregnant the first time I had sex. People tend to look at you different and react to you different & it hurts. Especially the ones who have the degrees or upper class but forget how they were when they were young. I had a wonderful mother and she was great but it still happen & I made my daughter in less than 5 minutes. I had friends who had abortions or were forced to give the child up but I had my daughter who is 25 now & she is a college graduate & I am one to. My daughter was in national honor society & I made sure my daughter knew of my struggle & how it affected my life. Parents can only pray that their child do fine and make the right choices so leave children alone & fight with compassion & quit being so judgemental when it comes to others people kids & look up under your own roof & if you don't have kids think about you as a teen and see that everyone has issues facing them the problem is what is your issue that you are hiding or don't want anyone to know about! This young lady is going to need prayer & she is growing up before the eyes of everyone & people are cruel. This is not democratic or republican this is a mother & father issue & their child. Life is not fair but remember what if it was your child? people always say not my child maybe not your child in front of you but when kids are out of parents sight thats when peer pressur hits. This young lady needs support as any teen in this situation does! I had a beautiful family & they really supported me and I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for them & I know it. You are as strong as your weakest link but links can be built stronger so never give up on a teen!

I was a teen parent and it was very hard. My family & parent's really glued together to help me but I had no clue on sex education. I got pregnant the first time I had sex. People tend to look at you different and react to you different & it hurts. Especially the ones who have the degrees or upper class but forget how they were when they were young. I had a wonderful mother and she was great but it still happen & I made my daughter in less than 5 minutes. I had friends who had abortions or were forced to give the child up but I had my daughter who is 25 now & she is a college graduate & I am one to. My daughter was in national honor society & I made sure my daughter knew of my struggle & how it affected my life. Parents can only pray that their child do fine and make the right choices so leave children alone & fight with compassion & quit being so judgemental when it comes to others people kids & look up under your own roof & if you don't have kids think about you as a teen and see that everyone has issues facing them the problem is what is your issue that you are hiding or don't want anyone to know about! This young lady is going to need prayer & she is growing up before the eyes of everyone & people are cruel. This is not democratic or republican this is a mother & father issue & their child. Life is not fair but remember what if it was your child? people always say not my child maybe not your child in front of you but when kids are out of parents sight thats when peer pressur hits. This young lady needs support as any teen in this situation does! I had a beautiful family & they really supported me and I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for them & I know it. You are as strong as your weakest link but links can be built stronger so never give up on a teen!

There are few distinctions I'd draw, but overall I don't perceive the double standard as strongly as you folks on the left.

First, age: even if mom or dad stumps as Parent #1, kids should be off-limits until 16 or so. Even if they're trotted out for political purposes.

Second, the matter of the issue to the extent that it reflects on the choices/values/experiences of the politician. More scrutiny here, less if the choices/values/experiences involved belong to the family member. Thus, I'd give the Palin kid, Billy Carter, and the various Clinton and Rodham misfits a pass: they're family, but what does that tell us about the politician? (And if teen pregnancy reveals Palin as a bad mother, then give equal time to the bad fatherhood of Al Gore. There's a clear double standard here based in gender, political orientation, or both, easily proven because most Americans won't know what I'm talking about.) So if Palin speaks from the authoritative position of a parent of a disabled kid and then throws him into an institution, that's fair game because it reflects her choice. Same if Palin disowns the daughter for immorality. Same for the liberal opponent of vouchers who puts the kid in private school.

Ultimately, it's a judgment call, and the press is right to publish the information whenever in doubt. I can only chuckle, however, to hear that the Enquirer has newfound respectability in the eyes of the mainstream press such that now a vague mention of Palin's affair backed with no details has more status that a highly detailed account of an affair involving--ahem--a Democrat.

And from a semi-partisan viewpoint (voting for McCain if it's close, Barr if not), the press's "close" attention to Palin's private life is desirable simply because the obvious disproportionality will doubtlessly win her votes.

Allen-

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I still disagree with you about the National Enquirer issue, though. I consider that article as slander disguised as news. I also disagreed with the Edwards article when the National Enquirer was your only source. We will have to agree to disagree.

Duplicity? Isn't that what this is? You're against sex education, teaching only abstinence; your own daughter gets pregnant; now you expect us to forgive. What kind of nether world do we live in? Only proves that some idiots will swallow this eruction of logic to subsume dichotomy between the netherworld and the real. I ain't buying this "we love our daughter." A shot-gun wedding in view. If she were a minority the shoe would be on the other foot and...binding.

At the very least, there's a double standard here.
Bill O'Reilly on Jamie Lynn Spears' teen pregnancy: “On the pinhead front, 16-year-old Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant. The sister of Britney says she is shocked. I bet.

“Now most teens are pinheads in some ways. But here the blame falls primarily on the parents of the girl, who obviously have little control over her or even over Britney Spears. Look at the way she behaves.”

O'Reilly on Bristol Palin's pregnancy: "Millions of families are dealing with teen pregnancy, and as long as society doesn't have to support the mother, father or baby, it is a personal matter. It's true that some Americans will judge Governor Palin and her family, and she will have a hard time running for vice president if there is much more chaos. For the sake of her and her family, we hope things calm down. This country needs a vibrant policy debate, not a soap opera.’

The only way that the Democrats are going to beat Palin/McCain is on the issues...and good luck even with that. People like, admire, and identify with Palin.

This is what I see played out every single day in the newspaper, television, radio and blogs:

Media: "Sarah daughter is pregnant. So much for the validity of abstinence education. "
People: "Give Sarah a break. Her daughter make a mistake. There but for the grace of God...."

Media: "Sarah belongs to charismatic church."
(Media shows a clip of the service and camera cuts back to commentators whose eyebrows are raised. One of them makes a condescending remark about fundamentalist churches. )
People: "Well, I wouldn't go to that church, but now that you mention it, my church has some pretty weird beliefs too."

Media: "Sarah is using her son's deployment to Iraq and her son's Down's Syndrome in her political campaign."
People: "Wow, we have a lot in common. My nephew is in Iraq and my little Susie has autism. I admire her courage."

Media: ""Sarah has her hands full with five kids." (More raised eyebrows and more chuckles from the commentators.)
People: "I'm a mom and I've raised three sucessful kids on a salary of $40,000 a year, ....and your point is...?"

Media: "Sarah has only been the mayor of a very small town and the governor of Alaska--a lightly populated state.
People: "And what is wrong with small towns and rural areas? Are you saying that people who live in small towns and rural areas are stupid?"

Ad nauseum.

I'm simply amazed watching the media shoot themselves in the foot every day--especially since most of them tend to be liberal. They really don't understand how much genuine affection people have for Palin.

My recommendation for Democrats and liberal media: think "female Ronald Reagan" and proceed very, very carefully.

Media:

Media:

The only way that the Democrats are going to beat Palin/McCain is on the issues...and good luck even with that. People like, admire, and identify with Palin.

This is what I see played out every single day in the newspaper, television, radio and blogs:

Media: "Sarah daughter is pregnant. So much for the validity of abstinence education. "
People: "Give Sarah a break. Her daughter make a mistake. There but for the grace of God...."

Media: "Sarah belongs to charismatic church."
(Media shows a clip of the service and camera cuts back to commentators whose eyebrows are raised. One of them makes a condescending remark about fundamentalist churches. )
People: "Well, I wouldn't go to that church, but now that you mention it, my church has some pretty weird beliefs too."

Media: "Sarah is using her son's deployment to Iraq and her son's Down's Syndrome in her political campaign."
People: "Wow, we have a lot in common. My nephew is in Iraq and my little Susie has autism. I admire her courage."

Media: ""Sarah has her hands full with five kids." (More raised eyebrows and more chuckles from the commentators.)
People: "I'm a mom and I've raised three sucessful kids on a salary of $40,000 a year, ....and your point is...?"

Media: "Sarah has only been the mayor of a very small town and the governor of Alaska--a lightly populated state.
People: "And what is wrong with small towns and rural areas? Are you saying that people who live in small towns and rural areas are stupid?"

Ad nauseum.

I'm simply amazed watching the media shoot themselves in the foot every day--especially since most of them tend to be liberal. They really don't understand how much genuine affection people have for Palin.

My recommendation for Democrats and liberal media: think "female Ronald Reagan" and proceed very, very carefully.

Sorry about the all the typos above...it's late.

Yep, Allen, that's definitely a double standard. Kinda like the N&R's evaluation of the Enquirer as an arbiter of newsworthiness.

Here's a test: two flip flops. Palin, it emerges, was for the bridge to nowhere before she was against it. Obama mentions this yesterday. Obama says Sunday that he "bucked" his party by supporting an increase in the size of the military, despite campaigning in the primary to cut the military. McCain mentions this yesterday.

Which will get more coverage?

I agree, Allen...that is a double standard on O'Reilly's part.

Brian:
I agree. There are flip-flops aplenty to go around. From McCain's about-face on tax cuts to Obama's retreat on no-drilling to Palin's trip back and forth across the Bridge to Nowhere.
But you dodge the issue. How to explain Limbaugh and O'Reilly's sudden shifts on morality and parental responsibility?

What do Limbaugh and O'Reilly have to do with this? I couldn't care less what either of them say.

I don't see how their double standard on teen pregnancy validates the mainstream media's double standard on the treatment of Sarah Palin.

Thoughts is exactly right on this: The media is out of touch with mainstream America on Palin. A recent survey of independent voters (who very well may vote for Obama) found that more than 50% feel that the media is treating Palin unfairly.

Brain444 and Allen,

Limbaugh and O'Reilly like Palin.

Pregnancy of troubled young actress = Access Hollywood scandal treatment

Pregnancy of Sarah's daughter = Sympathetic Diane Sawyer treatment

Rush Limbaugh actually said in his radio broadcast last week, "Sarah Palin: babies, guns, Jesus. Hot damn!" That's genuine enthusiasm for a candidate that you can't script...Republican or Democrat.

Sarah is a sharpshooter politician wrapped up in apple pie, motherhood and good looks.
I won't be bit surprised to hear radio stations playing: "I'll Be Seeing You," "We Did It Before and We Can Do It Again," and an updated song, "Moon over Iraq."

It's easy to explain: people come to instinctive, biased conclusions based on predispositions to interpret data in certain ways, and then they find rationales to account for those conclusions. When conclusions and rationales collide with previous conclusions and rationales, folks generate new logics to explain away the discrepancy. It's not that hard. Double standards are built into human psychology.

This is as true for Rush Limbaugh as it is for the News & Record.

What I think is interesting is that disenfranchised Republicans, Independents and some annoyed Democrat women are seriously re-evaluating John McCain. "Who is this guy who had the nerve to do this? Hmm..maybe he's not such an old codger after all."

I'm trying to remember when a VP pick
changed the momentum of a presidential race.
Any thoughts?

As a corollary to this, Obama's choice has the disenfranchised Democrat and Independent women re-evaluating him. They're saying, "Yeah, yeah, we've heard this before ...you respect our opinions--you just don't want us in upper management."

Obama's campaign asking Hillary to do major stumping just might be rubbing salt in those wounds. Again, it's Obama saying, "We want your support, we want your efforts...but, sorry, we just don't have a place for you on the ticket."

Uh-oh. Obama may have underestimated the women's vote and John McCain may have nailed it right on the head.

We shall see.

Frankly, I've never seen a veep hopeful create this kind of buzz. Not even Geraldine Ferraro.

I'm not sure on where the women's vote will go. That'll be worth watching.

Palin does, however, seem to oppose a lot of what Hillary is for.

As editorial page editor, I beg to differ. If we believe we've been on the wrong side of an issue, we'll say so.
If we change our minds based on further reflection, we'll say so as well.

You are so right, Allen. Clinton and Palin have very different views.

Perhaps McCain will pull some Democrat women in the same way that Obama will pull some Republican blacks. I'll be interested to see those numbers.

It's already worth watching, though!

For the record, I wasn't talking about you guys, but the news side (and specifically, the explanation that NOW the Equirer is a good enough source.) Somehow I doubt that the article would have made it in had Obama been the subject.

And yes, you guys will admit when you change your minds (as with War Memorial). It's a vast improvement over the pose of Olympian detachment and objectivity claimed by much of the mainstream press and (for some reason) believed by few.

Still, you think you'd have written the same column if Bristol Palin's name had been "Chelsea Clinton"? I won't say you wouldn't have, but I have my doubts.