News-Record.com

"Frankly, I dont' know who to believe at this point".
Allen Johnson

If the chief editor of the community's daily newspaper doesn't believe his own police, what chance is there?

Do you honestly believe that a stretched-thin G-Boro PD would devote time, energy and attentions to a purportedly innocent organization just because they are Latino?

I certainly would hope not.

I'm not sure that "speculation" about Latinos not voting for a black man counts as the "surfacing" of a "rift." In fact, the argument here is decidedly suspicious, basically consisting of cherry-picked bad things that were supposed (by someone?) to materialize, and then chalking up their failure to materialize as evidence of "progress." Another example of this logic would be, "Many expected Mexican killer bees to render Texas uninhabitable. But people still live there. Thank goodness for Off!"

As for the Cornell/Johnson Coalition of the Oppressed, it's better to look at the whole situation in terms of market dynamics. The whole Jackson-style grievance business has been in decline for a while, so it makes sense for the local franchise owner to tap into a new market, offering his consultation services in return for a new customer base. Fortunately, I don't see much future for this business, especially given how badly the merger has been managed.

Quite frankly, I do not think that they are treated like they are welcome here. Same with Asians. I lived in California for 30 years, and had all sorts of Hispanic and Asian friends and co-workers, and hired them as employees in my firm.

Since returning here, I notice that most of our citizens (except perhaps in the food service industry) appear to see them, but not see them. Almost every time that I speak in Spanish to Hispanics and approach them, they are very receptive, and almost appear to welcome the interaction.

I just do not get the impression that we (blacks and whites) are very hospitable. Additionally, no matter what position we might have on immigration and the appropriateness of them being here, they are here, and we should figure our the best way to integrate them into our lives so that we can collaboratively work together to improve the region. Rarely does separatism work in a positive manner in any society, and treating them differently does not advance our long term interests.

Quite frankly, I do not think that they are treated like they are welcome here. Same with Asians. I lived in California for 30 years, and had all sorts of Hispanic and Asian friends and co-workers, and hired them as employees in my firm.

Since returning here, I notice that most of our citizens (except perhaps in the food service industry) appear to see them, but not see them. Almost every time that I speak in Spanish to Hispanics and approach them, they are very receptive, and almost appear to welcome the interaction.

I just do not get the impression that we (blacks and whites) are very hospitable. Additionally, no matter what position we might have on immigration and the appropriateness of them being here, they are here, and we should figure our the best way to integrate them into our lives so that we can collaboratively work together to improve the region. Rarely does separatism work in a positive manner in any society, and treating them differently does not advance our long term interests.

"Rarely does separatism work in a positive manner in any society."

This is an interesting point, but not nearly as self-evident as suggested. In many ways, separatism works very well in a multicultural, pluralistic society. It allows up to go our own way and to avoid the kind of coercion that would invariably accompany any effort to jam us into the same culture. The PC sense in which this advice is offered--let's integrate them into our lives, the burden's on us to be hospitable, learn Spanish, etc.--ignores that integration is definitionally a movement toward standardization.

Instead of a kneejerk preference for alliance, coalition-building, and integration, we should, I think, ask what Burke asked of liberty: for what purpose will these things be used?

The danger of not asking such pragmatic questions, I suggest, is evident in Allen's favorite example of coalition building. He privileges the transcendance of racial lines, asking us to overlook in the meantime pedestrian question such as whether the whole exercise is an effort to legitimize gangs. Let's put aside the specifics, he says, and focus on the abstract form of the thing. I say not.

"Rarely does separatism work in a positive manner in any society."

This is an interesting point, but not nearly as self-evident as suggested. In many ways, separatism works very well in a multicultural, pluralistic society. It allows up to go our own way and to avoid the kind of coercion that would invariably accompany any effort to jam us into the same culture. The PC sense in which this advice is offered--let's integrate them into our lives, the burden's on us to be hospitable, learn Spanish, etc.--ignores that integration is definitionally a movement toward standardization.

Instead of a kneejerk preference for alliance, coalition-building, and integration, we should, I think, ask what Burke asked of liberty: for what purpose will these things be used?

The danger of not asking such pragmatic questions, I suggest, is evident in Allen's favorite example of coalition building. He privileges the transcendance of racial lines, asking us to overlook in the meantime pedestrian question such as whether the whole exercise is an effort to legitimize gangs. Let's put aside the specifics, he says, and focus on the abstract form of the thing. I say not.

My intended point is precisely the opposite, Brian: that this discussion should go far beyond the gang issue.
We have an opportunity to do this right, having not done so well in the past as a country with Italian and Irish immigrants, among others.
We can address distrust before it has a chance to establish deep roots.
A footnote: Are you seriously arguing for segregation?

"And just consider that his most fervent supporters happen to be black people."

No, Allen, the supporters are opportunistic race-baiters who use their race to legitimize their position as co-victims with the Latinos. It gives them a leg up on the non-black activists.
They're ain't an altruistic soul among the whole group; it's all about what they can get out of it.

Which is ....???????

Allen, if you don't know what continued gushing praise from the N&R and news coverage does for an activist in a community rife with racial politics, then I'd suggest you go ahead and take that early buyout because you're too naive to function in this arena.

Sorry, hit the "post" button too quickly.
To continue...
It's all about power and money, Allen. And you guys help tremendously. Your coverage legitimizes fringe elements of our community and aids them in garnering votes, support/donations, and political power.

Let's see, Allen. How about name recognition, government or charitable organization grants, increased church congregation numbers with concomitant increased collection plate receipts. Speaking honorariums. Favored tax status. Community clout to help intimidate sitting jackdaw politicians and aiding those filing EEOC or similar type lawsuits etc.

What gushing praise would that be. Jaycee?
And is that the extent of the personal gain you expect all of these black clergy to receive?
As for your petty personal comment about buyouts, I expect better than that from you, especially since your attacks are cloaked in anonymity.
Be fair. And stay on point.

Savage:
I would be the first to agree with you if I saw evidence of anybody seeking grants or money connected with this issue to feather their own nests. Thus far, I haven not.
Have you?

These are potential collateral benefits and not necessarily shady or untoward ie like grants for that school dropout prevention program(provided there is evidence they work and the people administering them are experienced and know what they are doing)etc. I was just responding to the implication that there is no benefit to activists

I don't think Nelson Johnson is in it for the money or he probably would have moved on to another line of work by now. I think Nelson is operating on a thirty yr. vow to aid anyone who opposes or alleges mistreatment at the hands of the G-Boro PD in any context. I don't think black-on-Latino crime or vice versa is a problem. If it is, I haven't seen stories about it. I'm sure there is isolated gang stuff but this pales in comaprison to black-on- black crime

Allen,

"Frankly, I’m not sure whom to believe at this point," comment is surprising to me. The person/group to believe is the one that has a set of rules to abide by. I am not saying that Cornell is guilty, that is for the courts, but to question the validity of the PD's motives is ridiculous. The Greensboro PD responded to a parent's request to help in removing their daughter from an unsafe envrionment (since Cornell had recently been shot, I can assume that being around him at the age of 15 is not the best place). Once they received the parent's recount (which included assault on the sister) they passed that information up the chain of command and arrest orders were issued and carried out.
Much more civil than I can imagine me or my friend Brian444 reacting to our daughters being influenced or even hanging out with men twice her age.

Am I seriously for segregation? That depends on what you mean by segregation. If you're talking about Sunday morning segregation, then yes, I'm for it, because any solution to it would be worse than the "problem," and the problem (as you conceive it) is simply the result of people's preference to worship in culturally familiar styles. If you mean "get that black guy out of my church" segregation, then obviously I oppose it (and indeed make a point to welcome non-WASPs when they attend my church).

Allen: "My intended point is precisely the opposite, Brian: that this discussion should go far beyond the gang issue." To where, precisely? That's what I want to know before I evaluate it. Leaving gangs aside, the Cornell/Johnson discussion goes precisely to a natural place: an old-style grievance politics that I think does more harm than good. Your premise is that an abstract, let's-get-to-know-and-like-each-other discussion is possible (a premise widely shared by people who write and talk for a living). I'm doubtful that many people will want to take part. If so, fine, but my guess is that folks aren't that altruistic: they'll want to know what's in it for themselves. Your discussion will strike them as ungrounded and irrelevant to their concrete circumstances. That's why we shouldn't overlook the actual circumstances of the one local example you can point to.

As for improving on Irish immigration, I'd say that (a) we already have improved, and (b) the buffers created by voluntary association are in part responsible for the improvement. You concede the point in claiming that "The tension is heightened by the greater likelihood that Latino immigrants tend to share neighborhoods with black people." Were you wrong when you wrote that?

Allen Jorge Cornellis, Puerto Rican US citizen and leader of the ALMIGHTY Latins Kings just came to Greensboro a few years ago. Angel 'Doc' Luciano, a leader of Latin Kings is in prison convicted of murder and 31 gang suspects are charged with 179 counts of first degree murder..Jorge moved to Greensboro. Jorge has watched death and destruction of families all his life and now Rev.Nelson Johnson has his backside. Heaven help us. Christine

Allen Jorge Cornellis, Puerto Rican US citizen and leader of the ALMIGHTY Latins Kings just came to Greensboro a few years ago. Angel 'Doc' Luciano, a leader of Latin Kings is in prison convicted of murder and 31 gang suspects are charged with 179 counts of first degree murder..Jorge moved to Greensboro. Jorge has watched death and destruction of families all his life and now Rev.Nelson Johnson has his backside. Heaven help us. Christine