News-Record.com

So far, it's been smooth sailing for the Guilford County Board of Commissioners under its new chairman, Skip Alston.

Of course, it's been less than a day.

Still, plenty of board members had nice things to say about Alston on Monday after he was elected, including some who he's feuded with in the past.

"He'll be a good chairman, I'm sure," said Republican Billy Yow, with whom the Democrat Alston has fought some epic battles on the board.

Paul Gibson, a fellow Democrat who also has clashed with Alston in the past, had praise for Alston and new Vice Chairman Steve Arnold.

"They'll do a good job," said Paul Gibson.

For his part, Alston sounded conciliatory notes as well.

"I'm looking forward to working with each and every last one of you," he said.

Still, the year is young.

On a board famous for personality conflicts, time will tell.

The North Carolina arm of Common Cause is honoring two Greensboro groups. From their news release:

A group of North Carolina A&T State University students and a group of Greensboro residents are being honored by Common Cause North Carolina on Saturday, December 6th for helping improve democracy in North Carolina.

The NCA&T student chapter of Common Cause is being recognized for their voter engagement work this past fall. Students knocked on more than 2000 doors in four Greensboro precincts providing voter education and registration materials. The targeted precincts traditionally have had a low voter turnout, along with a high number of unregistered citizens. Students conducted 5 canvasses during the month of October, assisting some residents to register and vote for the first time in their lives.

CCNC will also be honoring a group of citizens who came together last year to form the Greensboro Citizens for Clean Elections. These citizens, include African Americans, Democrats, Republicans, young and old and are united in their desire to bring down the costs of running for local office. They would like the North Carolina General Assembly to provide Greensboro the authority to experiment with public financing of local elections, something the town of Chapel Hill is now doing.

Common Cause North Carolina is a non partisan, non profit public interest organization that lobbies for more open, honest and accountable government. The NCA&T Common Cause chapter will be receiving the annual Democracy Youth Award. The Greensboro Citizens for Clean Elections is receiving the annual citizen activism award.

The December 6th event is held at the N.C. State University Club in Raleigh and is open to the public. For more information, go to www.commoncause/nc.org

You can find the Citizens for Clean Elections folks by clicking here.

Not to dump on their parade, but I would observe that they've just started pursuing what may be a very challenging goal, particularly since not everyone agrees that publicly financed elections are a good and noble thing. Still, good on them for getting some recognition.

We hear that Guilford County's new Vice Chairman Steve Arnold is calling into question whether the bonds should go to market as scheduled in January.

As it stands, that was never a firm rule. At the last minute the county can pull out.

And the line all along is that it's been too soon to tell whether the bond market will be ready for the municipal bond sale when the time comes, but overall, county funds are OK for now.

Though the county's AAA bond rating would help the sale, according to analysts. And the bonds could be moved, as we previously reported in a story about stalled school projects:

If the bonds don't sell in January, Fox said it could be months before they attempt it again.

However, at least one municipal bond expert is optimistic about the county's ability to sell in January - partly because of its AAA credit rating.

"High grade securities like the county should have reasonably good market access," said Matt Fabian, managing director at Municipal Market Advisors. "The high grade securities market is recovering, it actually has pretty much won back all of the losses it had in October."

A belated happy birthday goes out to Councilwoman Mary Rakestraw, who celebrated on Tuesday.

And an early happy birthday to Councilman Mike Barber, who was born Dec. 5.

Have a slice of bithday cake for us.

From the governor-elect’s press office:

Governor-elect Bev Perdue will hold a roundtable discussion with members of the Triad-area business community on Friday, December 5 at Guilford Technical Community College in Jamestown. Part of a series of issue-oriented “listening” events that Governor-elect Perdue is participating in, the roundtable will focus on jobs and economic issues affecting the Triad-area and North Carolina.

WHO: Governor-elect Bev Perdue
WHAT: Roundtable discussion
WHEN: Friday, December 5, 10:00 a.m.
WHERE: Guilford Technical Community College
Medlin Campus Center
601 High Point Road
Jamestown, NC 27282

With newsprint being what it costs these days, we can't cram all of what the county commissioners had to say on the new leadership and the 2009-10 budget into one story.

While Chairman Skip Alston and Vice Chairman Steve Arnold want to look at the budget with big-time scrutiny, another commissioner says that it's not the board's place to look over department budgets (Paul Gibson) and another says that it will be the same ol', same ol' (Billy Yow). But others (Commissioners Kay Cashion, Carolyn Coleman, Bruce Davis and Linda Shaw) want to get involved with the committees that will look at separate parts of the budget.

So here's a little more on what they said. We didn't hear from John Parks (missed connection), and Kirk Perkins and Mike Winstead didn't return messages.

Alston:

"Our challenge for the staff will be to do more with less and (for commissioners) to meet with the department heads and the budget directors and the managers and make sure they are online and geared up for this challenge."

He said he believes that he has six votes on the 11-member board to do the work.

"It’s not going to be my job or Steve’s job to run the county on a day-to-day basis, but we will be holding them more accountable," he said, adding that "no department is going to go untouched."

The committees will consist of three to five members that could include commissioners and a mix of staff.

This pairing is unique in that Alston, a Democrat, is one of the most outspoken members on the board and not afraid to wrangle with anyone, while Republican Arnold considers himself as "the most conservative" member.

"I’ve been at one end of the totem pole and he’s been a the other," Alston said, "And now I have agreed to see that we can come to some meeting of the minds."

Arnold:

Steve Arnold has always wanted to get into the nitty-gritty with the budget, but just didn't have the audience among the rest of the commissioners. And he pointed to the 2008-09 budget as an example.

"We didn’t have all the various departments come before the board," he said. "Those that did were the larger ones and they were in for what, 30 minutes?"

Well, not exactly everyone maxed out at 30 minutes, but there were a few departments that didn't speak at length during the budget hearings. Arnold is all for the committee process, and starting the budget hearings sooner. And he thinks that the foul economic winds might help the harmony between parties that seems to exist now.

"These particular times that we’re living in right now demand full and responsible accounting from elected officials," he said.

And one long-standing policy that he's been after - spreading tax incentives to all businesses - may gain momentum among the board.

"In effect we would be giving that tax abatement to new or added value for 2-3 years, to all property that would be identified as commercial."

Cashion:

Kay Cashion was considered a frontrunner for the chairmanship, but didn't carry enough votes to win. She's on board for the committees, from the sound of things, though, and knockin a few heads together to shake out ideas.

"We need to try to figure out how we're going to try to handle the needs of the community and still be as conservative as we can, with the obligations that we have."

Coleman:

Carolyn Coleman worked with Arnold when she was the chairman the last time, and so knows a few things about the nuances there.

Shoot, they whole board knows each-other pretty well. They have been together for four years already. After this next four years of the same commissioners, they could qualify as united under a civil union (not really, but it's funny to think about).

"With Steve (Arnold), he’s always concerned with the budget," she said. "And with Republicans, they want no tax increase, so that’s one of the things I know that he wants. And all of us want to bring some efficiencies."

Davis:

"I supported it 100 percent," he said of the decision in the board's leadership. "It’s probably the type leadership that we could use right now. That is a diverse group, bringing the Republicans and Democrats to the table. At least we’ll get everyone’s ideas."

He said that discussions are ongoing among the board members as those committees get put together ...

Gibson:

... unless you're Paul Gibson, who said he hasn't heard from anyone beyond the day the new chairman and vice chairman were selected.

As one of those dissenting votes, he wasn't too keen on Alston taking over the board.

"Mussolini had the trains running on time," he said. "I think everybody on our board wants to have a budget process that’s open and transparent, and we started the process a few years ago with the strategic planning process and budgeting for outcomes."

The strategic planning process was intended to bridge department together for greater efficiency, and budgeting for outcomes quantifies the results of spending process in government. Gibson is more likely to let the county departments run with the staff hired to lead them, and offer suggestions to run instead of intense scrutiny. He believes that Alston and Arnold are about to micromanage the county government and it's roughly 2,500 employees.

"I think we’re getting ready to go into a horrible, horrible situation," Gibson said.

Shaw:

Linda Shaw was in the conversation to be the vice chairman, but stepped aside.

"But the timing wasn’t good for me," she said, though she is on board to pow-wow with the new leadership on the budget, sitting down with department heads, and scrutinizing the budget by line-item.

"I think it will be a stronger record," Shaw said, "and I hope we will all start working together and do what’s best."

Yow:

There's another guy who thinks it won't work - Billy Yow.

"That’s all great in concept, but will it come to reality? That’s yet to be seen," Yow said.

He said that it only takes 6 votes to make a decision, and Democrats hold a majority on the board, with 7 members. He also said that he's heard the call for bipartisanship before.

"I’ve heard bipartisanship and nonpartisanship every time," he said, "and they do it until somebody wants something, and you’ll see it time and time again. It’s who’s got the votes?"

He's not all doom and gloom in Yow's view.

"And I hope that we can all get along and be in a more productive line," he said, with a caveat. "You’re not going to see six people with the conservative views of myself and Steve Arnold."

"The icing ain't on the cake as smooth as you would like it," he said, with a challenge to the goals Arnold and Alston said. “Show me.”

Greensboro could soon be releasing information about the 2006 polygraph tests taken by City Council members.

Blogger Roch Smith requested information about the tests, which City Council members took in May 2006 to try to determine whether any council member leaked a police department report.

The polygraph examiner had, apparently, not prepared any written explanation of the tests, but provided the results verbally to council.

Last week the city manager said the polygraph examiner agreed to write a report for each exam, as long as the council member signed a release. So far, three council members have agreed to sign -- Mayor Yvonne Johnson, Sandra Anderson Groat and Mike Barber. Other test takers said they would not sign, City Attorney Terry Wood said.

The tests were taken by eight current and former council members, including Sandy Carmany, Florence Gatten, Keith Holiday, Tom Phillips and Goldie Wells. At the time, all the council members said they passed the test. Councilwoman T. Dianne Bellamy-Small declined to take the test.

The infamous RMA report is now in the hands of a judge -- who will soon decide whether it should be released as a public record.

Guilford County Superior Court Judge John O. Craig heard arguments Monday from Sam Spagnola about why Greensboro should release the report, which was one of dozens of documents requested by Spagnola and fellow blogger Roch Smith.

Spagnola and Smith requested the records in hopes of clearing up some of the long-standing debates regarding the Greensboro police department. The bloggers sued the city after their requests were unfulfilled.

"Our opinion is the truth is in the papers. It's in the document," Spagnola said.

The city attorneys maintained that the RMA report -- a 2005 review of the inner workings of the police department -- was clearly a personnel document and therefore not a releasable public record.

"The law as it is written now does not allow us to give this report," city attorney Jamiah Waterman said.

Spagnola asked the judge to compel Greensboro to say which city staff members are included in the document, so that they might ask them to permit the info to be released. Under the state personnel law, employees can release their own records.

The city handed over a copy of the RMA report and some closed city council meeting minutes to Craig -- with the understanding that he would keep them in the strictest confidence. He'll decide whether Spagnola and Smith get the last outstanding documents in their public records request Wednesday morning.

Guilford County Manager David McNeill declined to comment Tuesday on comments from county commissioners about a possible shake-up in county management, a move that would include his retirement.

McNeill, who has been serving on a permanent basis for less than two years, is eligible to retire.
He said he would refrain from comment until the matter is discussed at a meeting Thursday of the board of commissioners.

Commissioner Bruce Davis said Monday that McNeill could soon retire and that the county would undergo a search for a new manager — the fourth in the last five years.

Commissioners also said they will be looking at the overall size of the county’s workforce with an eye toward possible reductions.

Attorneys for the officers who have filed discrimination complaints against the city said they intend to file a breach of contract claim against the Greensboro.

Attorneys complained to the city attorney about the publication of the clients' names in the Rhinoceros Times. Rhino Editor John Hammer got the names in a package of documents he requested from the city -- a release Greensboro claims was a mistake.

The officers' attorney Jason Knight says the release of the names and the leak of closed session discussions about settling the discrimination complaints were a violation of the confidentiality agreement signed when the city started negotiations to settle the complaints, according to letters sent to the city attorney. He said it caused the officers to be damaged in the amount of $750,000 -- the settlement offered and then rescinded by City Council.

Knight gave the city a week after the Dec. 2 council meeting to consider paying the officers $750,000 in damages before they would file a civil breach of contract suit.

City Attorney Terry Wood responded to Knight via letter this week, arguing that there was no link between the publication of the information and the settlement issues.

"The City certainly did not release information for retaliatory reasons, as you suggest in your letter," Wood wrote to Knight.

Woods said the city would vigorously defend any breach of contract claim.

So far, the officers haven't filed a suit. But Scoop will keep an eye out for that. Meanwhile, the discrimination complaints will be in the hands of the Justice Department to determine whether the employees have the right to sue Greensboro.

Some portions of a controversial police department review could see the light of day later this week.

But they might be sections of the document the city already released.

Guilford County Superior Court Judge John O. Craig heard arguments Monday that the Risk Management report on the police department and closed session minutes where city council discussed former Police Chief David Wray should be released to the public.

Two local bloggers, Sam Spagnola and Roch Smith, sued after Greensboro did not turn over their requested documents, including the black book, a photo lineup that included black police officers; records about the police department investigation; and information regarding Project Homestead, a local nonprofit homebuilder that went under amidst questions of how it used funds.

The RMA report and some closed session minutes were the remaining points of contention in the suit. The city argued that the report should be withheld under the personnel law, which protects municipal employee information.

So this week's latest turn in county government is that David McNeill is being forced out of his seat by Guilford County commissioners.

That is, there's enough votes on the 11-member board to get him fired, according to some commissioners, so he may opt to retire instead.

So why would they ask him to leave? Commissioner Paul Gibson, who actually backs McNeill, said that the new leadership is looking to have more control over county affairs. Which is something that Democratic Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston and Republican Vice Chairman Steve Arnold they said - in a way - that they are looking to gather.

There's sure to be more to this, but it's not all coming out just yet. And the new leadership on the board, which said it would have more communication with the media (and, via that, its constituents), was nowhere to be found today. We tried Arnold and Alston by phone twice today, each in the morning and in the evening. No calls back yet from either. We'll see how tomorrow goes.

It's time for the annual Scoopies, The Inside Scoops' annual jab-in-the ribs to local politicians.

And, lucky you, we'd love some nominations from our dear readers.

Here is Mark Binker's explanation of what we need:

What are the Scoopies? Inside Scoop’s annual awards, coveted by all, to politicians for outstanding achievement in the political arts.

Who is eligible? Anyone in public life from the Triad or with a tenuous but amusing Triad connection.

What’s my role? Basically, we need you to come up with amusing one liners that recall and poke fun at the year in politics.

So get to it, readers. And, for your consideration, here are some early nominations:

The Traffic Jam Jar: Barack Obama. The man’s motorcade was all over this state and he clogged up comings and goings in downtown Greensboro more than once this year.

Second Act Anvil: Don Vaughan. Former City Councilman Don Vaughan was ousted from his seat in 2007. But he’s back baby! This time, Vaughan heads to the state Senate to take Kay Hagan’s place.

The Holy War Hosanna: Elizabeth Dole. Kay Hagan may be “godless,” but she’s got a seat in Congress. Dole takes home recognition as having launched one of the nastiest political ads in the country this campaign season.

The Teflon Man-ager Award: Mitchell Johnson, for managing to keep his job at Greensboro city manager, despite some people's best efforts.

It hardly seems like it, but we have reached the last City Council meeting of the year. The members called off one other briefing session, in order to free themselves up for holiday cheer and whatnot.

Before they can toast 2009, they've got a couple of business items to clear up. Here's what they're up to Tuesday night:

What: Greensboro City Council meeting
When: 5:30 p.m. today
Where: Melvin Municipal Office Building, 300 W. Washington St., Greensboro.
Watch it: Time Warner Channel 13 or www.greensboro-nc.gov/citygovernment/council
How to speak: Sign up before the meeting. Speakers have up to three minutes for items not on the agenda. The speakers-from-the-floor section is limited to 30 minutes.
On the agenda: Council will consider rezoning land at Holden Road and Spring Garden Street to allow for a Dunkin’ Donuts.
Council will hold a hearing on the High Point Road-West Lee Street Corridor plan.
Council members will decide how to finance two major property purchases approved last month.

Could Guilford County's loss be Greensboro's gain?

Some city council members would like it to be.

Three council members -- Mike Barber, Mary Rakestraw and Trudy Wade -- have voted to dump City Manager Mitchell Johnson on several occasions in the last year. For months, some city council members have been floating the idea of hiring former Assistant City Manager and current Guilford County Assistant Manager Ben Brown to replace the embattled Johnson.

Some council members hoped that the shake-up at the county would mean it is prime time for Brown to move back to Greensboro.

Some folks were counting votes to replace Johnson with Brown last week. No word yet on whether Brown would consider such a move. Meanwhile the vote tally, thus far, has not swung in Brown's favor.

"There are not five votes to find a new city manager," Barber said Monday.

But there may be some kind of compromise for folks who have been disappointed with Johnson's performance. Watch out for a possible seat change that would move Johnson off the dais with the elected officials and onto the council chamber floors with the other city staff members and the public.

Greensboro City Manager Mitchell Johnson was removed Tuesday night -- from the dais, that is.

Mayor Yvonne Johnson asked the manager to sit on the council chamber floors, with the rest of the city staff, instead of up on the dais with the elected officials -- lest there be any confusion about his role.

The manager said he requested the move -- something some council members have asked for in the past -- after residents expressed confusion about his job. They did not to understand whether he was elected or not, he said.

The manager took his new seat, next to the city attorney, at the beginning of the meeting.

Meanwhile, the mayor gave a snapshot of the manager's recent job review. She said council member were pleased with his recent hires to his office and the way he handled a recent directive to respond to budget concerns. Council members said the manager had improved his communication skills -- but still needs more work, the mayor reported.

They decided not to give him a raise, the mayor reported, because it would be in poor taste considering the current economic troubles.

UPDATE: We here at Scoop are constantly being reminded that we should not try to be clever.

To that end, we got two complaints today about this post. So, to clarify, the manager requested this move.

The mayor asked for a general opinion of the council. There was support and opposition for the seat change, and one council member who said the whole issue took focus off more important things.

And then the mayor told the manager to go ahead and sit down on the floor with the staff -- adding that she might very well call him back if she decides it didn't work out.

Hope that clears it up. And to those confused residents, the manager is an appointed employee, not an elected official -- no matter where he sits.

Residents off North Elm Street have joined up to fight a proposed rezoning of properties at Elm and Cornwallis.

For folks interested in following the effort, you can check out neighbor Charles Brummitt's new blog on the issue.

We've been watching the big screw that is Guilford County gub'ment turn.

So new chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston is telling us that he and Steve Arnold are meeting with county employees and with department heads and with other folks in the county about all kinds of issues.

Why aren't we hearing much about it?

"It’s not required to happen in public," Alston said. "I don't think that it needs to be aired in public, and these are individuals that have lives after Guilford County, and their situations and the private thoughts should be discussed in private."

Personnel matters are private business. But what about the reconfiguring of government, which included cutting Ben Brown's position of deputy county manager? That doesn't appear to be personnel - such as an individual's review - it's a change in the structure of government itself.

"First of all, I have to talk to the individual who is in the position," Alston said. "And I have to respect the person who is in that positon first and let them know that the position is going to be removed, and then discuss it out in public."

Some discussions he has planned must be done in public - such as those committees that will look at the budget, efficiency and other issues. But there's always the chance that one public official will meet with another public official.

"If I’m going to meet with another commissioner, that’s not a part of the open meetings law ... and I can meet with any commissioner," Alston said.

Sure. But not with the intent of avoiding the open meetings law. Let's see what the statute says, and where the grey area may be.

This is a public body, according to N.C. G.S. 143‑318.10. (b):

"public body" means any elected or appointed authority, board, commission, committee, council, or other body of the State, or of one or more counties, cities, school administrative units, constituent institutions of The University of North Carolina, or other political subdivisions or public corporations in the State that (i) is composed of two or more members and (ii) exercises or is authorized to exercise a legislative, policy‑making, quasi‑judicial, administrative, or advisory function.

So that appears to clear up the question of those committees. Let's see what's considered an actual official meeting.

"Official meeting" means a meeting, assembly, or gathering together at any time or place or the simultaneous communication by conference telephone or other electronic means of a majority of the members of a public body for the purpose of conducting hearings, participating in deliberations, or voting upon or otherwise transacting the public business within the jurisdiction, real or apparent, of the public body.

What can the public rightfully see about those committee actions?

Every public body shall keep full and accurate minutes of all official meetings, including any closed sessions held pursuant to G.S. 143‑318.11. Such minutes may be in written form or, at the option of the public body, may be in the form of sound or video and sound recordings. When a public body meets in closed session, it shall keep a general account of the closed session so that a person not in attendance would have a reasonable understanding of what transpired. Such accounts may be a written narrative, or video or audio recordings. Such minutes and accounts shall be public records within the meaning of the Public Records Law

But these folks are commissioners, and they show up at a lot of the same places at the same time, and talk about business too. But there are other meetings that happen. Remember, Alston said: "If I’m going to meet with another commissioner, that’s not a part of the open meetings law ... and I can meet with any commissioner."

Yeah, but not to avoid those laws. Let's hear the rest of N.C. G.S. 143‑318.10. (b):

However, a social meeting or other informal assembly or gathering together of the members of a public body does not constitute an official meeting unless called or held to evade the spirit and purposes of this Article.

One can read this to mean that any gathering of any number of members of that public body (Board of Commissioners, chairman's committees, etc.) is a gathering. It does not say in that sentence that it must be a quorum - a majority of members. But it does say that if that gathering is done with the intent of evading the laws governing the meetings of public bodies, then it is indeed a public meeting, subject to the full documentation of minutes and so on.

So what do you think? Are those meetings, talks and chats with Alston and other commissioners being done to "evade the spirit and purposes" of the law?

Do you want those deliberations recorded?

Do you think that the politicans that govern this county have the right to discuss county matters at their discretion? Of course, there are those incidential conversations between commissioners. How far do you think that can go? What are you OK with?

In the talks that we've had with Board of Commissioners Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston, he said that there are changes coming in the county.

One, which caused deputy county manager Ben Brown to lose his job is a plan to reconfigure the county's administration to look more like Mecklenburg County, according to Alston.

Here, there's a county manager, a deputy manager, and a bunch of department heads beyond that.

In Mecklenburg county there's a manager and a team of focus areas, each with one head.

There are plenty of ways that this community could configure its government, but there could be a good amount of upheaval to go along with it. Questions for you close watchers of government:

What do you think is the best way to run things? Will it make a difference?

Here's a nice little compilation of what the online scuttlebutt is in the days since Guilford County's manager, deputy manager and attorey stepped down.

Ed Cone asks one blunt question.

David Hoggard muses on a tiger changing its stripes.

Guarino gives his roundup on the "new direction".

If you're home this week visiting for the holidays, here's the background on what's been going on from the N&R.

So what questions do you have about all this? E-mail me. I'd like to hear from you.

UPDATE: If you'd like to apply for county manager, here's the link.

Remember those committees that Melvin "Skip" Alston formed to review the county's budget and other areas?

We've got the list on some of those members, but what they'll do is still a little unclear.

"I think we have a lot of fat in county government," he said. "And we have a lot of people that aren't accountable. And I don’t think the whole story has been told through the years. And we could do a whole lot more with less."

He said that he's got an idea of what he wants the county to look like, but needs some input, but also doesn't want to divulge the entire plan at once. So what's the picture from here look like, now that David McNeill, Ben Brown and others are gone?

"I don’t know yet, I just started. And I’m asking people to be more patient and understanding. We are ten percent here. It’s in the first trimester."

So not much to say yet, it sounds like. But we will have an overall outlook on what's happened, why and what's next in tomorrow N&R. It kind of mashes all the occurences in the last week in one story, with some pieces on what could come.

But here's the composure of those committees for now, which could change. Remember, Alston and Steve Arnold are ex-officio members of each:

Budget committee: Steve Arnold, Billy Yow

Education: Bruce Davis

Human Services: Carolyn Coleman, Kirk Perkins, Steve Showfety - CEO of Koury Corp.

Manager Search Committee: Linda Shaw, Carolyn Coleman, Pat Danahy - president of the Greensboro Partnership - and Eric Wiseman - CEO of VF Corp.

Substance Abuse and Drug Treatment Committee: Kay Cashion

Alternatives to Incarceration: John Parks

Commissioner Carolyn Coleman called up this morning to ask whether a line we used in today's story on the county commissioners was true.

As a boilerplate, let's assume that journalism, as a whole, is as truthful, fair and balanced as humans can accomplish.

Now, then. Here's the line:

An official gathering of members of a public body must happen in public with minutes documented. A group can meet and correspond informally, unless, according to the law, the meeting is "held to evade the spirit and purposes of this Article."

"If board members devised a plan to corral votes behind the scenes and in a way that evades the spirit of the open meetings law, I believe you do have an argument that what they did violated the law," Ashley Matlock Perkinson, an attorney for the N.C. Press Association, wrote in an e-mail.

Which was in reference to the calls made by commissioners Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston and vice chairman Steve Arnold to gather support on the Board of Commissioners to remove David McNeill and Ben Brown's position - which led to McNeill's retirement and Brown's resignation.

"To me, this is nothing new," Coleman said, "this is the way that business had been done since I had been on the board."

She said that often a commissioner will bring up an idea and pass it around the commissioners to see if it has support before going public with it. Depending on your view, to some, it's shopping an idea. To others, it may be working back-room deals.

Whatever you call it, Coleman is right - those types of talks among commissioners are nothing new. When working on the 2008-09 budget, the commissioners privately discussed deals in the weeks ahead of the official vote.

"Commissioner A decides that he wants to do something, and he approaches Commissioner B and tells him and calls Commissioner C and tells him," Coleman said, giving an example of how the talks progress. "All you're doing is sharing your idea."

Scoop isn't so naive as to think that there's no chit-chat behind closed doors. But the public should be well aware that those conversations, under law, don't have to occur privately between commissioners. Also, we know that all humans are prone to err, and your elected representatives tend to forget the state rules which govern their actions.

In the case of the county manager and the talks that led to his departure, those conversations could have happened in an official meeting, but in a closed session. The minutes of the meeting would have still been recorded, even if they were never released to the public.

Let's drill down a little more. When asked if she believed that the conversations between commissioners that gathered the votes to fire McNeill should occur before the public (even if in closed session), Coleman said:

"I will not give you an explicit answer because it’s not that simple."

and

"You want me to say 'yes' or 'no'," she said. "First of all I would have to admit that I’m trying to avoid the open meetings law."

So, about the conversation itself?

"I don’t think it’s wrong," she said, "the caveat being trying to avoid the open meetings law, and if you do that then it is wrong."

You be the judge. Of course, we journalism types are inclined to get as much information on things as we can, so it's somewhat obvious where our loyalties lie. In this case, it's to access information dealing with the public's money.

Put much more bluntly, Friend-of-Scoop and N&R online reporter John Newsom said this about private meetings, "You better have a good ------- reason."

While on the topic of McNeill, Kay Cashion called us this morning with this message. Apparently she has been out of town in the last week or so.

"I was not one of the group making the decisions to release the manager or attorney," she said.

Nobody called her about the issue, either.

"The chair (Alston) had not made me aware of what his plans are," Cashion said about the plans to remove McNeill and Brown.

A few questions:

Who did know? Was it the full board? Was there any opportunity given for someone to oppose McNeill's removal?

Even if McNeill's predecessor Willie Best was fired in an extremely charged meeting, at least it occurred in the public eye.

In anticipation of future federal funds for infrastructure, Greensboro is getting together the list of projects that could use the cash.

The city staff compiled this $259 million list of potential projects. The wish list includes big ticket items like the Townsend Dam upgrade and renovation projects such as the War Memorial Stadium.

Next month, the City Council will go through and set some priorities.

Is your favorite project on the list? What should make it to the top of this heap, should federal dollars come down the pike?

In case you missed our annual awards show, click here to see who in local politics took home a coveted Scoopy statuette.

We're doing a story on what may lie in store for the 2009 budget in Guilford County.

And there may well be a property tax rate increase in store, even though the county said today that it will try to sell bonds at about one-third less than they planned on Jan. 13. They'll go for $164.6 million instead of $232 million.

The lower amount shouldn't change any projects, but is instead adjusted only for jobs that will happen in 2009.

So that means that Eastern Guilford High School will still get construction money, and nothing else should be delayed, according to Brenda Jones Fox.

Here's the original bond expenditures, under the $232 million:

From the 2004 bond referenda-
GTCC $15.5 million
Parks $7.5 million

From the 2008 bond referenda-
EGHS $45 million
Guilford County jail $39.615 million
Schools $100 million
GTCC $25 million

And the new $164.6 million figure:

From the 2004 referenda-
GTCC $15.5 million
Parks $2.5

From the 2008 referenda:
EGHS $45 million
Guilford County jail $7 million
Schools $85 million
GTCC $9.6 million

The Scoopies have heard twittering about Mayor Yvonne Johnson' s possible relocation to our nation's capital as a new employee of the administration of President-elect Barack Obama.

Seeing as how we hate rumors, we asked her directly. Mayor Johnson, in fact, has received an invitation to Washington. But it wasn't a job offer.

"People have been asking me that," she said Monday. "I did get a call saying they were going to give me two tickets to the inauguration. Other than that, I know nothing."

The mayor says if she does get a job offer, we'll be the first to know. And we will hold her to that.

Today we had this story on the other Kirk Perkins, who ran and won a seat on the Guilford County Soil and Water Conservation District Board of Supervisors.

Thing is, he didn't show up. So we talked to a few of the folks close to the issue, such as the Board of Supervisors chairman, George Teague, and the runner-up to the seat, Andrew Courts. We also spoke with people in the Board of Elections office and the county's planning department to get information, but were not quoted.

And the issue has gotten some attention elsewhere, too.

According to Teague, county Commissioner C.F. “Kirk” Perkins III showed up at a Soil and Water meeting to meet the other guy with the same name.

We didn't catch up with the commissioner yesterday before the story, but we called him this morning, and he had this to say:

"I thought that if you would’ve written a front page article, you would’ve at least have gotten a quote from me."

Then he said he was "going to a meeting" and got off the phone.

Going back through our notes and call logs, since 12/19, when we began working on the story of the two Perkins, we've called Commissioner Kirk Perkins on his home and cellphone at least three times and left messages.

True, we didn't call him yesterday. But we haven't been hearing much from the commissioner lately, not since David McNeill announced his retirement, anyway. In fact, we approached him during the recess after McNeill's announcement, and Perkins, before we could ask him anything, said "No comment," and hurried away into a waiting room where the commissioners hang out. Since then, any phone messages we have left for Perkins have not been returned, even as the deputy manager and county attorney resigned.

And this only gets some attention on 'Scoop, because the commissioner - especially as chairman of the board - has historically been very good about getting in touch with us, even if it happened at the end of the day.