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We've heard from some former county employees since Guilford County began shedding jobs.

Now, those who are talking to us are not just limited to the upper-level administrators who left through resignations, layoffs or retirement.

A former tax department worker from the High Point office, Cheryl Yoho, sent a letter to county commissioners and copied us on the e-mail about her job in comparison to what's funded in the budget proposal. Yoho worked for the county for three years before she was laid off. Here's what she sent us in an e-mail (we've added hyperlinks where appropriate, for background):

After reading about the recent county funding proposals that will go to organizations, I feel the need to inform the commissioners what their recent cuts have done to the Guilford County Tax Department in High Point. People in that department are afraid to speak up in fear of losing their jobs. I no longer have anything to lose. I have already lost my job there and may soon lose my home.

Below are excerpts of her letter:

I am one of the unfortunate employees in the Guilford County Tax Department to have their position eliminated. I am not a lazy person who lets everyone else do the job nor is anyone else in the High Point office. When I started working for the Guilford County Tax Department’s High Point office, the office had 12 full time employees and 2 temporary positions. Since then, the population has continually grown and because of yearly budget cuts and department reconstruction, the office now consists of 7 employees (1 manager, 1 cashier, 2 office specialists, 2 revenue agents, and 1 mapper). ...

How can the county justify what it has been done to the High Point office or to the citizens of High Point when they just give money away to who knows what or how the money will be used? They hadn’t even requested the funding. My salary was only $26,000 a year. That’s half of the amount the commissioners are intending to give away. At least the county taxpayers were getting a service with my position.

On May 13 we reported Commissioner Kirk Perkins was not in favor of removing the job that Ben Brown held, deputy county manager.

In December, Melvin “Skip” Alston told Brown that he had the votes to remove his job, which caused Brown to resign suddenly a day after former County Manager David McNeill retired with little notice.

Alston told McNeill he had the votes to fire him, which we later confirmed.

Commissioners only hire five people: the county manager, clerk, attorney, finance director and tax director. The rest of the county personnel is off-limits. Commissioners can, however, cut a position.

Among 11 commissioners, five have said they supported removing the role of deputy county manager, and five said they weren’t involved or didn’t support cutting the job.

Leaving us with Perkins.

A day after we ran the May 13 story, Alston said that Perkins told him we mis-quoted Perkins’ position on Brown’s job. Alston said that Perkins thought we were talking about Brown himself, and that the commissioners can’t target an employee.

Which we knew even when Brown resigned.

"Perkins said that you misquoted him, and be that as it may, I don’t like the idea of anyone trying to insinuate that I did anything unethical or lied or misled, and I don’t like that at all," he said.

Alston then called us some other things and hung up the phone.

We always want things to be in the clear, so on Thursday we approached Perkins to ask him, once and for all, if he supported removing the position held by Brown.

“There’s a lot of ways to interpret that question,” Perkins said.

We restated the question.

“There’s not really an answer, because (Brown) resigned, so the conversation is really with (Alston),” Perkins said.

Then Perkins reached into his pocket, said he had a phone call and walked away.

So you just can't wait for the Guilford County Commissioners to meet at 5:30 p.m. every other Thursday, and while you're watching, you want a little more commentary to go with the big game meeting?

Follow us on Twitter. We'll be doing it live from the meeting tonight, particularly through the public hearing on the county manager's 2009-10 budget recommendation. It should be a pretty interesting meeting to check out.

Here's our story today on the budget. And what some commissioners have had to say so far.

If you want to watch the meeting online tonight, go here.

In preparation for tomorrow's public hearing, we're breaking down some of the spending issues that commissioners have highlighted so far.

This is an extended look at the piece that will run in tomorrow's paper, with more comments from commissioners and Brenda Jones Fox. As the budget season grinds on, we'll get this stuff in print.

Melvin "Skip" Alston, chairman of the Board of Commissioners

On community groups funding-

"I don’t think Brenda would have recommended those if she didn’t feel they served a just cause."

On $1.3 million for a new economic development group-

"I think that is something that Brenda has worked out ... there might be more discussion about that at the commissioner work session."

Alston has said before and said again Monday that he would not vote for anything that includes a property tax rate increase in the budget.

Steve Arnold, vice chairman of the Board of Commissioners

On the $1.3 million for commercial development incentives-

"Although the money is in the budget, a policy has yet to be formulated. And we hope to do that before the fiscal year (begins on July 1), and we want to put together an economic devleopment proposal for everyone adding to commercial tax value."

The incentive plan is a departure from the norm for Arnold, who typically opposes most any economic incentives. He also opposes most spending on community groups. Though he has said before in this budget cycle that that non-mandated spending is what often gets commissioners to vote for a budget.

On county spending for retirement funds-

Arnold said that the $3.2 million in increased spending is not solely linked to those employees who were laid off or are retiring early.

"It's all employees currently living and benefiting from county policy ... historically, all county employees they get to take advantage of the health care plan (once they retire)."

Fox, as we said above, has not been able to gather the county's expenses related to those layoffs and early retirements, because that is "a difficult thing to measure."

He also gave the impression that commissioners may already have this year's budget sewn up.

"I don’t think commissioners are going to be so willing to spend additional dollars," he said. "And I think commissioners are already looking at next year’s budget."

He, Fox and others have said that they expect next year's budget to be tough. Speaking of, Fox, here's what we've heard so far from County Manager Brenda Jones Fox ...

To this point, Fox has led the budget process in a series of meetings with department heads in which they traditionally speak about what gets what spending. And traditionally those meetings are closed to the public.

But this year's set of manager meetings was not traditional, because commissioners sat in on them. Usually when commissioners get involved, it's the public's business. But apparently not for the budget meetings this year.

"Those meetings, if commissioners were in the office and wanted to come in and join in on those meetings - I operate on just a very open door policy - and those were open to the board if they wanted to come … but not open to the public."

And why weren't those meetings public?

"That was not a public meeting, that was my budget meeting," Fox said.

As we've reported here before, there have been numerous meetings that may have ignored the state's open meetings law, particularly this section:

a social meeting or other informal assembly or gathering together of the members of a public body does not constitute an official meeting unless called or held to evade the spirit and purposes of this Article.

The law doesn't seem to address who calls the meeting, or what commissioners talk about, except for this:

Official meeting" means a meeting, assembly, or gathering together at any time or place or the simultaneous communication by conference telephone or other electronic means of a majority of the members of a public body for the purpose of conducting hearings, participating in deliberations, or voting upon or otherwise transacting the public business within the jurisdiction, real or apparent, of the public body.

That's pulled straight from N.C. G.S. 143-318.10 (d) But how that gets interpreted has been an ongoing conversation. Guilford County commissioners and administration appear to believe that their actions have not broken that law.

Moving on, here's what Fox had to say about other parts of the budget ...

On funding the North Carolina Shakespeare Festival, which did not apply for funding-

"I looked at it form a historical perspective of agencies that had applied and had received funds or had not received funds ... (the Shakespeare Festival) had requested funds this year and received considerably less ... and I put 50,000 in for them …

"Well, they had not received any in 07-08 I just looked at the historical perspective of the (community groups)."

If commissioners approve current funding for the Shakespeare Festival, it would be the most the theater group will have received since at least the 2005-06 budget, when it received $45,000.

Fox added that she expects most of the discussion from here to focus on school funding and library money, both of which would see cuts.

Now we'll go back to the other commissioners we've spoken to ...

Kay Cashion

She expects some changes to what community groups get funded.

"I think this budget will be tweaked a little differently when it’s over," she said, and then spoke about library funding. "That’s one area that I want to see readdressed."

And she doesn't expect much uproar over the budget from the public.

"I don’t think that you’ll get much public fuss because you can hold no tax increase," she said, "That’s what they're interested in, no tax increase ... and those calling the shots know that."

Paul Gibson

It's no secret that Gibson has been unhappy with Alston and Arnold lately.

"I certainly cannot support that budget as long as those new (community groups) are in there ... and I certainly wouldn't want to add any new (community groups) in this new budget, and especially in a year as critical and tight as this ... and I have some strong misgivings about the $1.3 million that's in for Steve Arnold's economic incentive plan."

Gibson said that the new money for community groups - about $500,000 - and the money for Arnold's plan could go to libraries or school money that was cut.

"Here’s perfect example of one or two commissioners deciding what Guilford County will do," Gibson said.

On money for the new community groups, he said, "it’s a bribe to keep Carolyn (Coleman) and Bruce (Davis) interested in this budget."

Neither Coleman nor Davis have returned our attempts to contact them this week via telephone.

John Parks

Parks said that he hopes the schools can make do with the maintenance money that Fox's budget gives, with the promise that the county would be there to back school needs up later.

"The county’s always there for money to be requested," he said.

And he appears to support the county employee salary freeze, at least in light of other ways to save.

"The salary freeze is better than furloughing our employees or asking them to take pay cuts," Parks said.

Billy Yow

Yow, never one to sit by idly, has also been outspoken against some of the moves made by Alston and Arnold.

Yow first went to funding for new community groups.

"I’m not happy with doing this when the sheriff’s department’s requests weren't met and the EMS (request) wasn’t met ... is it the public safety or is the community based organizations?"

He asked, adding that he's looking into the budget himself and asking for supporting documents on the budget from the county.

Yow also doesn't seem to support the $1.3 million for Arnold's incentive plan.

"This whole thing has become so convoluted that there’s no right or wrong about it ... Steve is pushing the economic incentive thing ... he says he's not really for (community group spending), it’s just politics. Are we here for politics or are we here to represent the people and what’s right and wrong?"

Yow said he believes that the manager's budget recommendation was not developed by Fox as much as it was by commissioners.

"They will pass all this and they will look back and they will look and laugh ... I think the world of Brenda Fox, but I’m here to tell you that this is not her budget."

Commissioners Kirk Perkins, Carolyn Coleman, Bruce Davis or Mike Winstead have not returned phone calls seeking comment. Linda Shaw emailed us in response to a phone call, but has not yet responded to questions we e-mailed back about the budget.

We're going to run through a bunch of numbers here that we're looking at in a preview for Thursday's public hearing on the county's budget.

You'll have about two minutes to speak on your issue before commissioners, and they say that they're listening this year.

The county's $585 million budget includes no property tax rate increase, but there were a number of cuts necessary to get there. Nonetheless, some spending increases have made their appearance. We spoke with County Manager Brenda Jones Fox on the budget this morning and she gave us a little insight into the figures. So we'll dive on in.

Later this week, we'll round up what the commissioners are saying.

Schools

The funding they get: Same as last year for operating, $175 million. A $3 million cut in their money for maintenance will leave the schools with just $4 million to keep things up.

Fox said her spending recommendation is on par with other school systems in the state for similarly sized counties. We still need to nail this down, but it looks like Mecklenburg gives about $6 million to maintain Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools. That's just a quick check for now.

Nonetheless, schools are often a point of contention for commissioners and the public when it comes to funding. It seems likely that this year won't be different.

Community organizations

Libraries would lose $490,000, and there's another $537,917 for nonprofit groups.

Of that new funding $300,000 would help build a new YMCA, and the North Carolina Shakespeare Festival funding gets doubled to $50,000 - even though it didn't apply for funds in the current budget.

When we asked Fox about how a community organization that didn't apply gets funding, she said that she based the recommendation on what the festival historically receives. In 2008-09 the festival applied for $100,000, but received $25,000. In 2007-08, it didn't receive any funding, along with other community arts groups. In 2006-07 the group got $45,000 from the county.

County employees

Layoffs and an early retirement offer have cut about $16 million in spending on salaries from the budget, according to Brenda Jones Fox. She can't say how much the county is spending specifically on severance and retirement packages for those employees as they go, however.

Human resources, meanwhile, will need to increase its retiree health care payment by $1.2 million. That's the money the county pays to a health care plan for those who retire. The county is also spending another $2 million to a retirement trust administered by the state.

While we're on employees, Fox also recommends a salary freeze in the 2009-10 budget that would save $1.7 million for the county. That was not mentioned, that we could see, in the county's budget message.

Transportation

This department stands to see a big cut, which we reported already. Only those people who are handicapped or on Medicaid would qualify for rides. Who would lose rides? Those who need the county transportation in areas not serviced by the cities, or who need rides after the hours of operation for city public transit. That would save about $948,000 in county funds.

As for getting up with those commissioners, we've talked to Board of Commissioners Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston, vice chairman Steve Arnold, Kay Cashion, Paul Gibson, John Parks and Billy Yow. Hopefully, we'll hear back from everyone else before too long.

So what issues are you examining in the 2009-10 budget?

The agenda for Thursday night's county commissioners meeting.

Today we caught up with Commissioner Linda Shaw, who was one of the six five commissioners supporting the removal of Ben Brown's job in December.

This is an addition to the blog post we wrote yesterday to go with the story of Sharisse Fuller's promotion to assistant county manager, which replaces Ben Brown's old role of deputy county manager. Fuller will also remain the county's human resources director.

Also, as Fuller got her promotion, it came out that there were not six votes to support removal of Ben Brown's job.

Here's what Shaw had to say.

On Fuller:

Brenda has the right idea about this ... and it’s a good idea to have some department heads in positions to help out the manager and to be able to take on another role. (Fuller is) a hard worker and a smart woman and she and Brenda work well together.

I’m not going to say anything against Ben Brown he was really a nice person and all of that.

I have no earthly idea what you're talking about. But you know, it’s time to move on ... that’s behind us. We’ve got bigger and better things ahead of us ... and I really don’t know what you’re talking about.

Anyway I think there must have been six votes there ... would’ve been had it come to a vote.

Today we're taking on the tedious fun job that we call reading the Guilford County budget. If you want to take a look, go here.

So far, taxes aren't higher, and schools stand to lose some maintenance money. There's about $500,000 more for community groups, and about that much taken from the libraries.

And a $750,000 cut to law enforcement.

So we're going to break down those details and hopefully get with some commissioners later today. They will take up the budget next, make their marks on it, and are scheduled to approve the spending plan in June.

Anything interesting jumping out at you?

Some commissioners are expecting a budget with no property tax rate increase in Brenda Jones Fox's budget recommendation.

"I feel certain that we will end up with no tax increase," commissioner Kay Cashion said Wednesday.

But she didn't have any early indication of what it would look like. Nor did John Parks or Billy Yow.

"I haven’t been a party of seeing it put together or her putting it together," Parks said.

What we do know is that the Guilford County Schools budget request of the county for $175 million shows no major increase over the current year's budget. And that portion is the single largest allocation in the county's $587 million budget. Though the school board chairman Alan Duncan said that could change if the state cuts more from the schools budget.

What we know we don't know, for this year, is the expected shortfall in sales tax revenue and the true cost of layoffs, early retirement and the turnover in the county attorney's office.

At least one of those issues, the attorney's office, may receive a little more clarity by the end of the day Thursday. Commissioners will take up the possibility of hiring an outside firm for the county at 3 p.m. Any option outside of a staff attorney appears certain to cost more.

Commissioners will review a contract, too, for the attorney's office to be handled by an outside firm. Cashion's stance:

I think they're too expensive, and I question why we need a firm. It’s my understanding that the county has always sought outside help when it didn’t have the expertise or time to handle cases ... and I’m not sure what the push is for an outside firm. And then you look at the pricing, it’s pretty expensive to have someone from a firm sit at the monthly meeting

We also hear that plenty of people will come to oppose a trapping season for foxes that Guilford County may be able to open.

In the last meeting, commissioners supported the move for the county to be included on a fox trapping season. Supporters of the legislation, which is working through the General Assembly in this session, said that foxes aren't pets, carry rabies and get in the way of trapping coyotes - a problem for livestock.

Opponents are expected to speak against the legislation Thursday. Expect people from the SPCA to appear.

Kirk Perkins was the only commissioner voting against the resolution, and he didn't return phone calls Wednesday.

If you're looking to track down Board of Commissioners vice chairman Steve Arnold, good luck.

It does not seem that the general public has a reliable way to contact Arnold easily. The phone number listed on the county's homepage is disconnected, and the county email address that's provided doesn't seem to get his attention, either.

For the past day or so, we've tried to contact him via another unpublished number - his cell phone - to talk about an issue that's brewing between Oak Ridge and Kernersville. But his mailbox has been full for months, meaning that it's impossible to leave a voicemail. The only way get the commissioner is to page him through his phone, or be lucky that he picks up the call.

Has anyone else out there attempted to reach Arnold lately?

We just want to let readers and constituents know. By contrast, other commissioners are pretty responsive to N&R messages. Exceptions include Kirk Perkins, who was prompt with call-backs when he was chairman but has not been as reliable since he left the post, and Mike Winstead, who rarely returns messages left at his work or on his cellphone.

Yesterday we wrote about an issue along western Guilford County over an unincorporated area between Oak Ridge and Kernsersville.

Today Steve Arnold told us that he hopes to bring the parties together in the next week.

"The ETJ is not going to solve the problems that everyone acknowledges," Arnold said. "And it would be much better to nip it in the bud, as my favorite line from Barney Fife used to say."

There appears to be some tinges from the ongoing Heart of the Triad conversation in this: rural vs. development.

Jennifer Fernandez had this in today's N&R about how the state and county is handling swine flu. So far, there have been no reported cases.

And this morning we chatted with the county's health director, Merle Green, about how well-equipped the county is to handle a possible outbreak of swine flu, and what it has done previously with other outbreaks.

In the past few years there have been outbreaks of MRSA, she said, and the county worked quickly to document and control those incidents.

How the health department handled those cases is likely to be a template for how it would work if swine flu makes it this way.

"And we want to take this opportunity to manage it well and at the same time try not to sensationalize and overreact," she said. "And there can be that fine line."

Here's the county's swine flu page.

Here's what some other blogs are saying.

In the hurting economy and a year that commissioners want to cut county spending to save money, it appears that the parks budget may be salvaged.

The budget committee took up the subject of parks funding today, and Democrats flexed a little of muscle in the face of Republican Steve Arnold, the chairman of the committee and vice chairman of the Board of Commissioners.

Now's a good time to point out that though the committee is looking at the county's budget ahead of the manager's recommended budget, it has little power to influence the budget directly.

"This motion gives a sense of where the board is," Arnold said.

But only for particular members of the Board of Commissioners. The budget committee is comprised of Arnold, Kirk Perkins, Carolyn Coleman and Kay Cashion. Board of Commissioners Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston is an ex-officio member, and creator of the committee.

And since the committee wasn't created by the Board of Commissioners, it doesn't have much official power to change policy or control spending.

Nonetheless, Perkins, Cashion and Coleman led the conversation to suggest keeping funding in place and not cut about $130,000 that would require some parks to close on certain days.

"I just don't think that we're saving any real money," Perkins said. "It's window dressing."

So the three recommended keeping parks funded as much as possible in a motion for County Manager Brenda Jones Fox, who is out-of-town this week.

Filling in for Fox is Sharisse Fuller, the county's human resources director and special assistant to the interim county manager. Only, there is no interim county manager since Fox took the job permanently.

You may remember when Ben Brown left the county suddenly in December, he was told by commissioners that his job would be cut.

And then Fuller received her long title to add to human resources director.

We asked her this week how her job as backup to the county manager is different than a deputy manager - which is, essentially, a backup to the county manager.

"Firstly, I've been fulfilling all my duties as the human resources director," she said Tuesday, "and I can still fulfill all the obligations."

She added that she's also been working on the county budget in the last months, and working in budget meetings and "signing off on various things."

"A lot of things cross over to HR," she said.

The Guilford County budget committee looked at funding for community organizations on Tuesday.

No decisions were made, but at least 20 applicants gave presentations lasting between 5 and 20 minutes apiece over four hours that morning.

Some applicants were left out, according to Steve Arnold, because they already had contracts with the county.

But in a subjective process as CBO funding, it's not aleays exactly a clear path to what gets taxpayer bucks and what doesn't.

The county's community organization policy is written in a way that allows commissioners to pick and choose what gets money and what doesn't.

Completed applications will be reviewed by representatives of the department most closely affiliated with each organization requesting funding. These staff representatives will meet as a group to discuss the requested funding level of each organization and will reach a consensus on what they as a group believe to be the most efficient, effective and equitable funding, given the completed application and how well they address the funding criteria referenced above. The funding recommendation made by the staff will be reviewed by the County Commissioners’ CBO Review Committee for final recommendation to the full Board of County Commissioners. At their discretion, the County Commissioners’ Review Committee may require a presentation by the applicant organization.

Also, the deadline for this year's CBOs was originally March 16, but then was moved to 8 a.m., April 28 in the last commissioners meeting.

Which got some interesting discussion.

"It seems to me that someone has an organization that they want to apply," said Commissioner Kay Cashion at the time of the vote to move the meeting. "And I can't support this."

Commissioner Billy Yow voted to move the meeting, and was among seven commissioners to support the move with Linda Shaw, Bruce Davis, Melvin "Skip" Alston, Steve Arnold, Mike Winsttead and Carolyn Coleman.

Nonetheless, Yow had something to add about any late-comers:

"You’d think they catch on."

Before yesterday's 4 p.m. meeting to review county manager applicants, we had heard that Brenda Jones Fox was going to be selected.

We'll go into it here in greater detail than we could in today's print story.

The county went through the process of reviewing about 40 applicants for the position through a search that included at least the Southeast and the World Wide Web, pared it down to six applicants, and then went in-house instead.

And nobody in the commissioners chambers seemed shocked at the late entry.

Then again, Fox has been interim county manager since David McNeill suddenly retired in December (and then deputy manager Ben Brown and county attorney Sharron Kurtz abruptly left in the following weeks).

Alston and others said that they were impressed with Fox's work and welcomed her to the permanent post.

Fox, 65, has worked for the county since 1971, and was previously county manager with the support of Steve Arnold in the early 1990s. Alston helped boot her from the job in 1992, and now he's behind her work.

"She's held no remorse for that," Alston said Thursday, "and I respect that."

In the last few months, Alston said, he's gotten to know Fox better.

Audits of Fox's finance office have generally been favorable. The county also enjoys a top credit rating, which she's partly responsible for keeping intact.

She's a registered Republican, according to the state board of elections Web site, and has a clean criminal record, according to a quick check at the county courthouse.

Most lately, her work for the county has been most visible in countless meetings to create a flat budget for 2009-10.

To that end, the work has involved two layoffs and job cuts totaling 75 positions with claims that it saves $4.1 million in salaries. It has also included closed-door meetings with elected officials to discuss county policy - an apparent violation of N.C. General Statue 143-318.10 (d). There's been little documentation offered about details of the layoff, or response to the particulars of those questionable meetings.

When we've tried to get in touch with her regarding layoffs or other county matters, Fox rarely returns messages. We still can't pin down how much will be paid out in severance packages to laid-off employees this year. And the N&R has asked several times for that information.

Part of that silence, she said Thursday, was because she could not check phone messages easily from other phones. In addition to e-mail, we've left messages on both lines. She also said that responding to the layoffs fell under a personnel issue.

Only certain information about employees can be released under the state's personnel law, but we're looking at the positions, not the individuals who held them. The layoffs are also issues that involve public funds.

Nonetheless, Fox on Thursday seemed agreeable to returning messages.

"I'll end up with one phone number," she said. "I will do better."

To be fair, both Fox and human resources director/assistant to the county manager Sharisse Fuller have been working long hours.

It's easy to believe that Fox has her work cut out for her. The county has several big-name positions that must be filled, such as planning director and the role of deputy manager.

We use the term "role" here, because the county appears to be ready to reorganize its top administration to include several assistant managers in a format similar to Mecklenburg County.

In the meantime, human resources director Sharisse Fuller has had the duty of what's usually called a deputy manager under the title of Special Assistant to the Interim County Manager. Now that Fox is the permanent county manager, that title may change.

In a related footnote, Ben Brown left the county under the threat from Alston and Arnold that his position was to be eliminated.

Back to how Fox got the job, several commissioners said that after looking at those six finalists for the county manager they thought that Fox was already best for the job.

"I asked them, and it wasn't a hard sell," said Alston of how he broached the idea of selecting Fox for manager to other commissioners.

Previously, in December, when she was offered the job of interim manager, Alston said that she also asked about applying for the manager's spot. Alston said he gave her an option: she could either apply for the permanent position or take the interim post.

Recalling that conversation, Alston said Thursday that Fox said she would do whatever the board wanted her to do. Earlier that same day, Fox said that she didn't apply for the job, nor was she interested in the permanent manager's position.

When we asked Thursday how Fox came up in the consideration for manager, Arnold and Commissioner Linda Shaw finished each-other's sentences.

Shaw: We started listening to them (manager applicants), and Skip brought up Brenda-

Arnold: -During executive session to review the tapes, he said "I fired her twice" ... but he was very impressed.

Shaw, who headed a committee of private members of the community and some commissioners, said that the process was not simply for show.

"As chair of that committee, I would not have wasted their time," she said, adding that the committee did not think that the finalists were the best for the job.

"Let's face it, she and Sharisse have done a great job," Shaw said.

Commissioner Paul Gibson, as the one dissenting vote, seemed to feel differently about how Fox's name came into consideration.

"As soon as we looked at the videos, they said that," Gibson said about the suggestion to make Fox the permanent manager instead of the applicants. He said that he believes the decision to make Fox manager was made months ago, not last week.

"We aren't going to attract the best and brightest," Gibson said. "People are staying away from Guilford County. We're not going to be able to attract top talent."

The lineup for the 2009-10 Bryan Series lectures at Guilford College was announced, and tickets are $35 and up. They go on sale May 4, but there are some peculiarities for how and when they are sold, so be sure to read this for ticket info.

Looks like some pretty interesting names are coming:

Oct. 7: Garry Trudeau, creator of the comic strip "Doonesbury."

Oct. 26: Cellist Yo-Yo Ma, who will speak and perform.

Nov. 3: Paul Krugman, a Nobel-winning economist, author and columnist for the New York Times.

Feb. 28: Anna Deavere Smith, an actress, playwright, and professor who is best known for her “documentary theatre” style in plays.

April 13: David Gregory, an NBC News reporter and host of the network's talk show “Meet the Press.”

So, who's going to camp overnight for tickets? We would, but that appears to be a big week in Guilford County. Interim manager Brenda Jones Fox is expected to release her budget that Thursday, May 7.

Speaking of the budget, a committee selected by Board of Commissioners Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston will meet at 10 a.m. today in the Old County Courthouse.

Their purpose is to see details of the budget and make suggestions to Fox, it appears. But there's no official power given by the Board of Commissioners to this committee. Nonetheless, there are five of 11 commissioners on the committee.

Commissioners on the committee include vice chairman Steve Arnold, Kay Cashion, Carolyn Coleman, Kirk Perkins and Linda Shaw.

Yes, this meeting is open to the public.

Yes, the flowers are in bloom and pollen is swelling in the noses of reporters. So starts the time of year that also brings the bickering, meetings and seemingly endless chats between politicos and other government staff on the issue of the budget.

Also, here comes another committee called by Melvin "Skip" Alston to watch the budget. Steve Arnold has become a sort of budget czar for the county this year, as he has sat in on numerous meetings held by Brenda Jones Fox to discuss the budget - though the rest of the public was not able to see or hear about that.

This committee, led by Arnold, is expected to put before more commissioners some ideas about the budget and what it may look like. For now, we know that there's an expected shortfall in sales tax collection and that Alston and Arnold are interested in keeping property taxes down.

That being said, the committee doesn't have any teeth at this point - it hasn't been sanctioned by the Board of Commissioners to operate on their behalf. But there's good reason to think that plenty of ideas appearing in the final budget would get floated in that committee first.

For example, in another Alston-called committee, talks about early retirement and the county's layoffs came through a committee led by commissioner Carolyn Coleman, though it's been unclear specifically where those ideas were born.

Here's the schedule:

Tuesday, 2 p.m.
Wednesday, 10 a.m.

Both sessions are in the Blue Room located on the first floor of the Old County Courthouse, 301 West Market Street.

Last week, we sent out questions to Guilford County Attorney Matt Mason for our story on the attorney's office and the certain increased cost that the county faces with it.

We also sent a list to interim county manager Brenda Jones Fox about the county's layoffs. Here's what we hope to find out:

The record of the decision-making process used to determine who was laid off by the county.

Here's why: In our first request for information on the layoffs, we received a copy of the county's reduction in force policy and a sample worksheet for ranking county employees in a department. But nothing was provided about the actual positions, or how the county determined they were not necessary. Nothing has been provided yet for the second layoff, either.

That documentation would give substantive evidence for cutting those positions, which were determined largely from closed budget meetings that included commissioners. That could also help shield the county from lawsuits by disgruntled former employees who may feel that they were unfarily targeted in the layoff.

In that vein, as we have noted before, elected officials making policy decisions behind closed doors without a legal reason for a closed meeting is an apparent violation of state law. See § 143‑318.10 (d).

That law helps taxpayers see what elected officials and government are doing with your money.

What is the total cost of all the salaries, minus the benefits paid out for severance packages for laid off employees, minus those who are opting for early retirement - with early retirement money paid out?

Here's why: The county says that the saved salaries would be $4.1 million. But the savings to the county, this year, could be much less when the cost of severance packages and early retirement bonuses are subtracted from the $4.1 million. And if they county can come up with a figure for the savings from cut positions, there must be some kind of work to back that up.

When we talked to Fox last week briefly at the manager search committee meeting, she said that she would have a response to our questions.

We haven't heard from the county yet.

Here's a fun, wonky, gub'ment timekill!

We just found this list, from our friends living across the pond, of say-nothing terms used by government types.

And there's this handy-dandy BS-o-meter you can use on your favorite government sites (there's a dirty word on the linked page, so beware). Sadly, it doesn't seem to accept PDFs yet, so we'll have to wait for the technology to catch up before we can scan some documents.

And it doesn't decode from that lexicon of governmentese to what normal folks use when chatting about government in action. Which is unfortunate because we're still trying to figure out exactly what "proactive" means. (Is it to be active before you're active? If that's possible, aren't there some pretty difficult physics involved? Wouldn't Stephen Hawking and other members of the scientific community have some interest in theories of proactivity?)

In all seriousness, we respect the work that government staff puts into the countless reports and studies that they churn through year after year at the request of sometimes-fickle politicians and managers. Even if those documents end up being a little dense to the casual reader.

Today, we decided to look into what other commissioners had to say about layoffs in the county.

"I knew that some were coming, I didn’t know what they were," said Commissioner Linda Shaw.

She said that most of the people she talked to were OK with the way in which the county was looking to save money.

"The public could care less, they care about their property taxes not increasing ... and they care about us looking out for the tax dollar," she said.

And she defended the way in which Board of Commissioners Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston meets with interim county manager Brenda Jones Fox.

"The chairman has always had a open door to the manager," she said. "And they talk about ways in they can make government better."

Though there have been some meetings that may have violated the state's open meetings law, in which some positions cut last week were discussed.

Tax Department Director Francis Kinlaw said that he met with Fox three times about positions that were affected in his department.

When asked if other commissioners were in there, he said that he'd "rather not comment on the specifics of the meeting."

Though we know that at least on one occasion there were two commissioners meeting with Fox to hear budget presentations behind closed doors.

Alston seemed to have a lot on his mind Monday, and he first got to his definitions of the public and the press.

"I had no obligation to inform your newspaper," he said, "and you took it upon yourself to say that the newspaper is the public."

He was going back to an earlier statement he made about not feeling any responsibility to tell me what is going on in the county. And by me, he meant me, Gerald Witt, News & Record employee. I also happen to live in Greensboro.

"I said specifically you," he said, "and your newspaper and you know to what extent I was talking about. And I’m saying there’s no obligation to inform them."

"I talk to my constituents," he said, "and I know what my constituents are saying to you. And I don’t have to talk to you and I don’t have to talk to Allen Johnson. Just because I don’t talk to you all, and it does not mean that I’m not talking to the public."

He said that he doesn't have to include us in on his thought process, or brainstorming when it comes to spending public funds.

"I don’t appreciate that you have to think (we're) thumbing our noses to the public," he said.

We chatted a little more, and he said that the public he speaks with supports his tax-cutting measures and that the only ones that seem to have any problem with anything are at the News & Record.

Then we asked how many phone calls he fields in a day.

"That’s for me and the public to know," he said, "and I think you're being sarcastic."

We asked how he logs his contact with the public.

"Again, I think that you're being facetious. My job is to bring about efficiency, not to explain to you how I act as an elected official," he said.

"I’m bouncing a few things off my constituents," he said, "not with the News & Record."

So then we asked his definition of constituents.

"My constituency is all the citizens that are paying their tax dollars and every citizen of Guilford county ... not just the constituents in my district, and I’m not saying that I talk with every person in the county," he said. Alston said he talks with residents who call him, business people and plenty of others.

"You are a reporter, and you are trying to get a story. The average citizen is trying to get it for average information. And you take what I say and then twist it. That’s what makes you different, and these people are doing it out of concern for their neighbors and themselves."

Commissioner Billy Yow supports the reduction in force, but is not behind Alston.

"This is a process that, in my opinion, has never been done and is long overdue," Yow said of the layoffs, surprised that there weren't more people involved. "And I think the interim manager is doing a great job at the strategy."

Yow has sat in some of the budget meetings Fox held to determine who is would lose jobs and who wouldn't, along with vice chairman Steve Arnold - an apparent violation of the state's open meetings law.

Yow said that he watched Fox give suggestions, and then departments came back with their suggested cuts, but the layoff was determined by Fox.

Then he took aim at Alston.

"The chairman has not come out with any mission statement," Yow said, and he’s promised transparency. And he lied to the public and he lied to you, the media, and he’s not bringing the transparency."

Alston said when he was named chairman that he would be more open to the public.

There's been a number of accounts to the contrary.

"And if his memory fails him that much," Yow said, "you should blister his ass for not telling and doing what he said he’s going to do."

Other commissioners did not return messages for the story.

With one round of layoffs down and another one TBA, Guilford County is making steps to cut the budget this year to make up for funding shortfalls.

And so is Charlotte, which is announcing pay freezes and job cuts down that way.

But locally, for the county or city, what are you hearing?

E-mail me for the county business, or Amanda for city tips.

Over the last two days, we've talked a lot with Guilford County Board of Commissioners Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston.

And he's had a lot to say about the layoffs, the press and the public. First, the layoffs, which he and others say ultimately come from interim county manager Brenda Jones Fox.

Tuesday he couldn't say when the layoffs are coming.

"I know when Brenda tells me, because it’s her decision to do RIFs," Alston said Tuesday.

Then, this morning, he seemed to know more than yesterday.

"I know what’s going on, I just ain’t told you yet," he said.

And he takes exception to what a NC Press Association attorney told us about the open meeting law.

In particular, he believes that a meeting that interim county manager Brenda Jones Fox calls can be closed to the public, even if two commissioners are sitting in on it, as they have previously said.

Alston said that at least five commissioners have to get together before any gathering is an official meeting. And since Yow and Arnold, who have sat in on Fox's meetings and given direction, are not on an official committee for those meetings, Alston argues that it's not an open meeting.

"Because those two commissioners are not acting in any official capacity as it related to the full board," Alston said.

So, then, that would make them just a couple of guys sitting in on a government meeting? Couldn't anyone, then?

"I don’t know if (Fox) allows the press to be a part of the department head meetings," Alston said.

Alston, who has previously said he's in the county headquarters nearly every day, then implied that he didn't know the nature of the meetings that Fox had been holding. We've heard from numerous department heads that she's discussing the budget, asking for cuts, and then the commissioners present ask for even deeper cuts.

Arnold has also said that he's given input on the layoffs. According to the county's reduction in force policy, the board of commissioners or the county manager can conduct a reduction in force.

The Board of Commissioners, that we've been able to find, have not officially given the power to Arnold to act on their behalf concerning layoffs/reduction in force.

And we've not been able to get much on what thinking is behind the layoffs.

Back to the budget meeting, after we read to Alston this section of the North Carolina Open Meetings Law ...

a social meeting or other informal assembly or gathering together of the members of a public body does not constitute an official meeting unless called or held to evade the spirit and purposes of this Article.

... he said this:

"We’re not going to agree with that. Y'all are going to continue to report what you report, and we’ll just have to agree to disagree. And I’m not going to adhere to you-all’s version of it and I don't have have no problem with that."

Now, for that public/private thing, Alston sees a difference between the public and the press. Which we've gone over here before.

"I’m more of best friend of the public than a news reporter is," Alston said Tuesday. "I have volunteered as a public service. I have more commitment and accountability to the public than the newspaper does."

That's a subjective position, of course, so we're not going to respond to it other than to say that we constantly strive to be consistent, fair and objective. Also, Alston gets paid $24,300 a year by the county to be chairman. Arnold will receive $21,000. All other commissioners receive $20,700 a year from the county. Each can spend up to $1,500 a year on commissioner-related travel expenses.

And then Alston went after the News & Record, attempting to draw links to between news and the editorial staff.

Allow me to take off the reporter's fedora and speak directly to you, dear reader. I do not speak with the editorial staff. They are housed in a different section of our building. I may say hi as we pass in the hall. The most that we have interacted in the last year is when I sat in on the occasional candidate interview and said very little, or if they ask me for a contact so that they can fact-check some piece they are writing. I rarely read editorials, and read letters to the editor about as little.

Which is also what I told Alston. Now let's put the reporter hat back on.

"I don’t see y’all as the public," Alston said of the News & Record. "I see myself and elected officials as the public. We have been sent here, not you all, to do a job on their behalf, after consultation with them, not after consultation with the press."

He said that our interest is only in selling papers - which we reporter types often hear from elected officials and others annoyed by our work.

Alston also mentioned that his number is published, and he welcomes feedback from constituents. Here, again is his contact information:

Melvin l. "Skip" Alston
2705 W. Vandalia Road
Greensboro, NC 27407

(336) 272-5779 - Business Number
(336) 854-2910 - Home Number
skip.alston@gmail.com

And for every other commissioner.

When we reported the impending layoffs in Guilford County, we also tried to pinpoint how they are being considered. Melvin "Skip" Alston said that he, vice chairman Steve Arnold, interim County Manager Brenda Jones Fox and human resources director Sharisse Fuller have been working on the plan.

NC Press Association attorney Ashley Perkinson said that doesn't appear to fit in the bounds of the state's open meetings law.

Though Alston said they only talk about positions - not individuals - and he's only advised on about 10 to 20 percent of the overall cuts.

Fox will call him up, he said, and meet with him and Arnold individually or separately. Or Fox will hold budget meetings that the pair of commissioners shows up for sometimes, or include other commissioners, such as Billy Yow.

Here's what Perkinson said about that in an e-mail sent last night (hyperlinks added):

First of all, I think the two commissioner team may fit the definition of "public body." The North Carolina Open Meetings Law § 143-318.10 defines a "public body" as follows: " 'public body' means any elected or appointed authority, board, commission, committee, council, or other body of the State, or of one or more counties, cities, school administrative units, constituent institutions of The University of North Carolina, or other political subdivisions or public corporations in the State that (i) is composed of two or more members and (ii) exercises or is authorized to exercise a legislative, policy-making, quasi-judicial, administrative, or advisory function." (emphasis added) It seems to me that this three member team is a committee exercising a policy-making function. The Open Meetings law provides that "each official meeting of a public body shall be open to the public, and any person is entitled to attend such a meeting."

Also, while § 143-318.11, the closed sessions section, provides an exception to the open meetings law for certain personnel issues, "general personnel policy issues may not be considered in a closed session."

Though we've cited this portion of the law to them, commissioners don't seem to agree the process should occur in public. Or in a way that documents the conversation.

What we're hoping to do here is make sure that, while tax dollars are being spent or saved, the public can know the process by which it happens - not simply the end result.

Like 6th grade algebra, when it comes to spending public funds, it's important to show the work behind it.

On the previous layoff, we've been trying to get the work behind that, and eventually resorted to a request for public documents - emails and any other documentation that the county used to determine which positions were cut.

What we received - so far - was a copy of the county's Reduction in Force policy, a sample worksheet that the county uses to determine which positions stay or go, and an email sent from Fuller to a county administrative assistant thanking her for help on creating the worksheet.

Guilford County commissioners are holding a work session at 3 p.m. today that will be open to the public. Most of the county commissioners are expected to attend. And we'll be there.

Here's the agenda.

Commissioners will hear reports from the Alston-appointed committees that have been looking at efficiency, schools, substance abuse and other issues. Not that these committees themselves have teeth, but several of their recommendations have turned into action items for commissioners - especially with regard to layoffs and early retirement.

And, if you want to dig a little deeper, here's an article from Girard Miller, a regular columnist for Governing magazine, on offering early retirement. As a benefits and investment analyst, he's not a fan:

Instead of trimming budgets by making hard decisions, public officials love to play the "early retirement" card. They offer older workers incentives to leave the workforce voluntarily, in order to achieve staff reductions they are unwilling to make the hard way — by analyzing the organization and reducing the workforce where necessary.

Now, I grant you that in large governments with heavily union shops, the hands of management are often tied by seniority rules and other dysfunctional personnel practices that have evolved over the years, so savvy budget officers know that the slot they target for a budget cut may not actually be the position that's eliminated. I've also worked as a local government financial official who knew exactly how to use the tool of early retirement to trim deadwood by getting certain functionally useless high-seniority workers out of everybody's hair, and appreciate the temptation to solve problems tactically in governments that are small and flexible enough to permit such surgical moves. I also realize that the cost of unemployment benefits will hit public agencies that lay off workers outright. But these rationales do not excuse a failure by large bureaucratic public agencies to downsize rationally rather than apply mindless and artificial measures to cut personnel costs.

On another note, back when we discovered that there had been a layoff, commissioners said that another one may be coming. Anybody heard anything on that?

Later this month, Guilford County will hold its semi-annual auction.

The March 28 auction list includes plenty of bikes, hand and power tools and the usual scads of desks and chairs.

If you'd rather score some cash from the county, the application for community organizations is up on the county's Web site. Last year, the county wound up giving some money to local groups, but not without plenty of debate.

This year, if the commissioners driving the county are as serious as they claim about cutting the budget, the fight for public funds could be just as tough.

Gerald Witt is writing about how each county commissioner has $1,500 in tax money each year to use on travel, meals and lodging at conferences across the country. Commissioners are working through budget cuts now, but this one has remained untouched.

Says chairman Skip Alston: “I’m planning on going to the national forum for black public administrators in Oakland.”

Other commissioners will go to this weekend’s legislative meeting for the National Association of County Commissioners in Washington. Bruce Davis says he's driving instead of flying and will cut back the number of nights he stays in D.C. to reduce expenses.

In difficult economic times that are prompting spending cutbacks by local governments, businesses and families, is such travel a reasonable expense? Or not? Why?

When it came time to hear about changes in the county manager, attorney and deputy attorney, we heard about it through tips.

The layoffs last week? A tip.

The resignations of the two recent county attorneys? Tips.

Yet all of these things were the business of the county, and the Board of Commissioners were notified when they happened, often via e-mail.

When asking for specific public documents, we use a formal request. But in the case of a getting a head's-up about some of the stuff above, we usually call down to the clerk in charge, or the HR director or the county manager - the person that's holding the document that was sent out.

And earlier I wondered aloud when talking to one of those county employees if it would just be easier to CC us on those emails when they go out. And, since they are public documents, why not just go ahead and let us know too? Receiving those emails would've turned up the news that we have listed above sooner.

Melvin "Skip" Alston spoke to that today. He feels that commissioners should know about stuff before the public does.

"If I ask my staff to do something an you call and ask my staff to do something, then my staff better take care of something for me before they do something for you," he said.

When we ask for something, we are asking for information just the same as any other member of the public can. Yet Alston sees the media as different from the public, it seems.

"I don’t think the county should be bending over backwards to get information to write your story," Alston said.

Only in very limited cases is the media treated differently than the public. And that's more likely to appear at the federal level than anything else.

The only difference between us and the public, best as I can tell, is that finding information is something that we (as Binker might say) scruffy reporter types are tasked to do. And then we pull the kernel from those documents and resources to deliver to the public.

Yet public officials often seem to want to differentiate between reporters and the public.

Alston certainly sees a difference.

"I don’t think that it’s necessary that we email, or that we have to provide it to you when it’s available," he said, adding that if the county attorney sees things differently, then he'll relent.

What do you think?

You may remember a piece on doggie doo downtown that ran in the paper last week.

Within in a day or so, Guilford County placed new signs asking owners to clean up after their pets. But we won't take any credit for that. Facilities manager Fred Jones said those were in the making anyway.

So while 'Scoop made some rounds in county offices this week, we stopped by offices for the Guilford County Board of Elections, where they have wide street-level windows overlooking the lawn where offending owners let dogs do their business.

An elections office worker: "There's a guy with the Great Dane puppy. A beautiful, big dog. But what it leaves is like a cowpie."

And the cowpie stays there.

It sounds (and looks) like some are still brazen in their defiance of the city's code mandating owners to pick up after pets.

On Wednesday Guilford County Schools ran its principal for a day program, and Commissioner Kirk Perkins got to run the show at Madison Elementary School for a half day.

"I got to sit in on some classes, and I did get to read to a kindergarten class, so I could prove that the commissioners can read at a kindergarten level," Perkins joked.

But seriously, folks. Can we get a rimshot?

Perkins also sat in with a few meetings involving teachers and other staff, and even sat in one of those teeny chairs that the young'uns use.

"I almost need two of them," Perkins said of trying to sit in the chairs built for a child's body. "I’m thinking that my big rear end might not fit in there."

We're attempting to contact the interim county manager, human resources director and all commissioners right now, as well as others who may be in the know.

If you want to comment, check our story and comment there, or contact me at 373-7008, or email.

We cornered Melvin "Skip" Alston and Billy Yow in the same place at the same time after Thursday's commissioners meeting, on tape, speaking about how commissioners can work better together.

During the recent departures of some of the county's top administrators, Alston created advisory committees intended to take up the search for a new county manager and attorney, among other things.

But there was one potential snag - the Board of Commissioners can fire the manager and attorney and also hires those roles. The committees Alston made to review applicants had members of the public on them, not the usual elected officials and county staff.

This was a small issue, but resolved with a 10-1 vote by commissioners and a requirement that the regular people on those search committees sign confidentiality agreements. Commissioners worried that if a candidate didn't get a job and wasn't happy about it or one of the public members spoke about a candidate outside of the committee, a lawsuit could follow.

But the significance of the move is that not only are the commissioners behind the committees now, Alston is again stating his mission of getting more consensus from the board.

Hear Alston speak on the issue.

But what about the committees themselves. Were they not thought all the way through in the haste of making them?

Here's what Yow said on making the committees less of a liability
.

Enough of that. Why do they seem to be getting along so well now? Is this a new age of consensus building?

Alston speaks first on getting votes from board members, then Yow chimes in on how the committees must talk to one-another now. Listen here

Aside from the recent spate of quick departures in the county, the members of the county attorney search committee had some concerns to hash out with the lone commissioner, Kirk Perkins, about the state of the county.

The committee appeared to say that if the county wants a top-notch attorney to replace the recently-resigned Sharron Kurtz, then the Board of Commissioners need to shape up a bit.
Other committee members included attorneys Ronald Barbee and Tom Terrell.

And the committee thought that the job announcement wasn't up to snuff - the message the county sent appeared to be unclear and only yielded four qualified applicants.

"It takes a very special kind of person to deal with you all," said Joesph Williams, an attorney and former judge. Hear full comments here.

To that, Perkins said that there have been some good attorneys in the county in the past.

"And you fired them," Williams said.

Perkins noted that there was no firings, but that those attorneys left under their own will.

Hear the full exchange here.

They moved on to the matter of pay, and private attorneys apparently make a hefty dollar more than what government attorneys earn. To get top talent, Williams and others there said, the county needs to be ready to pay top dollar. That is, potentially more than $200,000 - which is about what some of the highest-paid attorneys in county government make in North Carolina.

Sharisee Fuller, the county's human resources manager and special assistant to the interim county manager, said that Guilford County does market research to see what is consistent among other counties in the state.

This committee won't make any decisions, but their words could resonate with some commissioners. The committee may be charged with reviewing applications, but they said they want more to review before they begin thinning the resumes.

Other potential recommendations the committee mentioned could include restructuring the department, or going outside of the county for legal help, similar to what Mecklenburg and other counties in the state do.

You could be paying more when it comes time for that next ambulance ride.

That's one budget option that emergency services director Alan Perdue presented along with his budget plan before the county's Effective, Efficient Government Committee today.

Child support enforcement and the Register of Deeds gave their presentations to the committee today, too.

Since the county's department directors have met in front of the committee - comprised of county staff, elected officials and members of the community - the meetings are starting to look like budget hearings that commissioners usually see when they begin work on the budget.

But some commissioners do sit in on this committee and offer occasional insights on what may get their attention 'come budget time.

Commissioner Kirk Perkins, for example, said that he'd support making sure that funding for emergency services is maintained next year.

All departments may face cuts of some sort in this budget cycle. At the very least, they must create flat budgets, after a directive from the Board of Commissioners.

Many times, when a department is asked to make cuts, the response comes that any cuts would be severe and potentially affect how the public is protected, served or otherwise works with the government.

Yet some departments' demands are greater than others. In Child Support Enforcement, most of their money comes from the federal government, and the rest is covered by fees. Until this year. A change in federal policy means that the county may need to fund about 7 percent of that department's budget. That would be about $283,252, or about $1 for the owner of a $200,000 home.

Then, there's Register of Deeds, run by former county commissioner Jeff Thigpen. In his presentation, he estimates that about $2 million in extra revenue from his department goes to the county.

As a revenue-generating agency (the Register of Deeds files and handles things like marriage licenses, deed transactions and other transfers) commissioners choose how the revenue is spent. That amounted to about $5.7 million in last year's budget.

Up next Tuesday are presentations for the county's departments for mental health, DSS and facilities.

The UNC School of Government just posted its 2009 salaries index, which lists how much staff are paid, county-by-county, across the state.

It lists the salary ranges from positions such as a caseworker in social services to county manager, commissioners and chairman of the county commissioners.

In Guilford County, the chairman of the board of commissioners makes $25,020 + $1,500 travel; the other commissioners make $20,700 + $1,500 travel and the county manager takes in $172,106 + $7,200 travel.

By comparison, and this was found just looking through the file, Catawba County's manager makes $198,934 + $12,000 travel, and is about one-third the size of Guilford.

Keep in mind that all counties are a little different in how they operate, and each can give out raises as they feel appropriate.

But there's also info on the employee 401k plans and other benefits. Definitely worth the time for the wonk inside of you.

Today we received a copy of the updated committees and committee members named by Melvin "Skip" Alston. The PDF we received from the county was marked "draft."

Keep in mind that this is a draft, and it's probably safe to bet that others will be added, particularly to the school committee.

Here they are, copied and pasted from the file:

Effective Efficient County Government
Carolyn Coleman-Chair
Kirk Perkins
Melvin”Skip”Alston
Steve Arnold
Robert Chiles, Sr.
Skip Moore
Steve Showfety
Mark Kiel
Staff: Brenda Fox
Sharisse Fuller
Jeff Thigpen
Billie Martin Pierce

Budget (Meeting with Effective Efficient County Government)
Steve Arnold- Chair
Billy Yow

County Attorney Search
Kirk Perkins-Chair
John Parks
Melvin “Skip” Alston
Steve Arnold
Joe Williams
Ronald Barbee
Tom Terrell

County Manager Search
Linda Shaw- Chair
Carolyn Coleman
Bruce Davis
John Parks
Melvin “Skip” Alston
Steve Arnold
Steve Bowden
Eric Wiseman
Pat Danahy

Education
Bruce Davis-Chair
John Parks
Kay Cashion
Melvin “Skip” Alston
Steve Arnold
Staff: Jeff Thigpen

Substance Abuse & Drug Treatment
Kay Cashion-Chair
John Parks
Linda Shaw
Carolyn Coleman
Melvin “Skip” Alston
Steve Arnold

The county manager search committee meets today as well, 2 p.m., in the Blue Room of the Old County Courthouse, 301 W. Market St.

Five Guilford County commissioners showed for a meeting hosted by Guilford County Schools Superintendent Maurice "Mo" Green on the strategic plan he's been showing around lately.

The commissioners there mostly focused on the cost of the program, how much money goes to minority businesses in school contracts and an outreach program that would provide information for parents on child development and support.

But how much all that would cost is not known. Too soon to say, Green told Board of Commissioners Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston.

"I've read your plan and I've heard about it several times, but I want a price tag as soon as you can get it," Alston said.

Among other commissioners that showed - Kay Cashion, Carolyn Coleman, Bruce Davis and John Parks - there were just a few questions.

Davis and Coleman were particularly interested in the schools practice of hiring minority and woman-owned subcontractors, which has a target of 12.4 percent of larger contracts. Based on an audit, Green said, the figure is supposed to keep the school system fair in its spending with public money.

"It's what the law says," Coleman said of the goal, "but ours will be much higher."

The commitment to using a higher level of minority businesses must occur with, she said, a "commitment from the top."

"The commitment from the administration is absolutely there," Green replied. But the school board really has the say-so in handing out much of the school money to subcontractors.

Later in the presentation, commissioners focused on the parenting program, Parent University.

The program would offer tools to areas of the school district with struggling schools. Houses of worship, for example, could host a child development seminar. A factory might hold one during a 3rd-shift lunch.

Not only were the commissioners' interests piqued, but Green said the public is interested in Parent University - slated to kick off in 2011.

"I think Parent University will move the dial," Green said.

Cashion seemed to want that to move quickly.

"You need to strike while you have the interest," she said. "There are a lot of volunteer groups out there."

On another note, no school board members were at the meeting.

But Davis, who is head of the schools committee formed by Alston, was there. He told Scoop this week that his group has not met yet, though he has had some action in forming the group. It upset a few members early on, and now he's looking to rework the committee makeup and get more participation from the school board.

At first, those committees Alston planned were going to have community members alongside elected officials. Some school board members seeing the first rendition of Davis' group thought it was High Point heavy, though.

Davis' commissioner district covers part of High Point.

That list got released a little prematurely, he told us Wednesday, adding that he had to "back up and punt."

Despite the hiccup, he plans to get that moving soon.

"After some time at the first of next week," he said.

If so, then his committee would be only the third of the committees Alston announced to have met officially since Alston announced they would form in December.

The manager search committee meets at 10 a.m. Friday.

A potential harbinger for a budget battle to come - government spending targeted for minority and woman-owned businesses - came up in Tuesday's Effective, Efficient Government Committee meeting.

In the tiny, 6-person purchasing department headed by Bonnie Stellfox, with a roughly $500,000 annual budget, they make the purchases and find the bulk deals for departments in the county.

And they run the contracts that go through the MWBE program. It's something that's dear to Democratic Commissioner Carolyn Coleman, but not looked upon kindly by Republican Steve Arnold, vice chairman of the Board of Commissioners.

And both commented on the program the program minority and woman-owned business that aims to include minority-owned businesses in the county's contracts.

"You’ll recall that when we hired a MWBE coordinator," Coleman said, pointing out that commissioners specified an allocation for the post, "we placed the money for that."

Then Arnold, who has often voiced his opposition for the program chimed in, looking for the total cost - $85,000.

On the surface this doesn't sound like much, but it's a potential tiny fraction in the solid-block that appeared to be in lock-step on issues of taking the budget by line item. As goes politics, different commissioners represent different interests.

And keeping in the efficiency theme of the year so far, Coleman, later reiterated Board of Commissioners' Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston's decree when the committee began discussion on combining Greensboro's and the county's purchasing departments.

"I’m going by what our chairman and vice chairman told us, there are no sacred cows," she said.

Time will tell which cows get to stay in the barn, however.

The county's efficiency task force also heard reports from several county departments (Public health, tax collections and purchasing) on what kind of cuts they could make in 2009-10.

Commissioners asked departments to create a flat budget for the next year, but also a budget that reflected a 3 percent decrease and a 5 percent decrease. Not sure if that second request for cuts happened in a public forum, but we're checking on that.

For the other presentations, few major cuts were made on the surface, and each presenter included the possibility of employees early retirement as a figure to could bring the budgets down.

The Department of Public Health found a way to cut about $62,000 from its $21 million budget request for 2009-10. That's roughly a .3 percent decrease compared to the current year's budget.

In the tax department, it appears that collections will look much like they did last year according to Francis Kinlaw, the department director. His options for cutting the $6.4 million budget could be reducing transportation expenses and reducing advertising. Another, more extreme option could be to consolidate the tax collection office in High Point to Greensboro.

We're getting ready for tomorrow's Board of Elections meeting in which the board will take up the issue of Kirk Perkins. Not the commissioner Kirk Perkins, but the Kirk Perkins who hasn't shown up for the seat that he won on the Guilford County Soil and Water Conservation District Board of Supervisors.

It seems that there's a few questions left to settle. And some procedural issues - maybe even legislation - could change locally or in the state as a result.

The Board of Elections requested Perkins' presence for tomorrow's meeting, but it appears doubtful that he'll show up for the meeting, according to Elections Director George Gilbert. Instead, Gilbert said that the candidate's campaign manager David Crawford is likely to show, along with a woman who volunteered to appear as well.

"My guess is that the Kirk guy probably won't show up," Gilbert said.

Perkins was able to register to vote (which is pretty easy to do) and then come back and become a candidate in Guilford County.

This was possible because the county verifies identity for first-time voters on election day, when they receive a ballot. And there's no explicit rule to verify local candidates on a ballot. Most of the time, those people have voted locally before.

But a new person who hasn't voted locally before can still run for office.

"That ID requirement should apply, it’s just not made explicit," Gilbert said. He added that in his office that will become a new rule when it comes to voting.

So here, that would keep someone from running in the future who may not be the person they claim to be.

Meanwhile, the guy who would've won the election, Andrew Courts, is trying to figure out how he can claim the seat that he feels is rightfully his. If not for Perkins, he would've won the unpaid nonpartisan seat on the board that doles out about $100,000 in grants for conservation projects.

Usually if there's a vacancy on the soil and water board, the members select a person to fill the post and recommend that individual to the state soil and water commission for approval. In this case the board treated Perkins' no-show as the same issue as a mid-term seat becoming open.

But, Courts contends, the no-show should put him in place to take the seat. The circumstance, after all, is tied to an election.

The local board appointed Herb Henrickson, who finished third in the election behind Perkins and Courts.

So Courts plans to go to the state soil and water board with his plea when it comes time for Henrickson's bid to go before the state soil and water commission in Raleigh.

Or, at the very least, he'd like to have a do-over on the election.

"And not just those who were in the field previously," Courts said. He'd be agreeable with opening up the election to anyone.

As for the state, which is watching this closely, the deputy elections director Johnnie Mclean said that she's never seen anything like this before.

The state board hasn't ruled on this, and may not have to, but the result could influence a new rule for no-shows on a swearing-in ceremony. Especially if those no-shows are fraudulent, as Courts and others believe when it comes to Perkins.

The county is looking to have a zero property tax rate increase over last year, and we want your help with this story.

What do you want to see cut from the county budget? What must stay or be increased? Is the sheriff's office not funded well enough? Could schools use more money? Would you like to see more for parks? How will the county handle the increases in requests for help at the Department of Social Services?

We're looking for what you have to say and want to add that in an upcoming story.

Post comments here, email me or call 373-7008 with your thoughts and suggestions on how best to spend the county's public funds.

If you're just itchin' for more of that county commissioners' retreat, here's a few more notes from Monday's 5-hour-long Board of Commissioners retreat:

Jail

Commissioners got a recommendation from its jail advisory committee to go with a company to build the $115 million downtown jail, but committee chairman Paul Gibson was unable to present on the jail package due to personal obligations.

Commissioners Bruce Davis and Carolyn Coleman seemed displeased with how the board was presented with the choice of a single recommendation led by contractor Balfour Beatty, though.

What the committee saw as an advantage - local company DH Griffin being involved in construction - Davis saw as a possible drawback, and hinted at the potential of collusion in the decision-making.

"If it was not for the good 'ol boy system that I see right now, then I would not be fighting the system of unemployment and homelessness in my community," Davis said.

Coleman wanted to see differences between the final two choices and their approaches to hiring minority and woman-owned subcontractors.

"No one’s told us what made you select this company over the other," she said.

Davis' proposal that the board see the two finalists failed. Other commissioners said them that commissioners had chances along the way to see the contractors for themselves in committee meetings and other situations.

"All I’m asking is that we get information, and educate us on the two, then we can ask the tough questions," Davis said.

Coleman said she thought it was the committee's job to do the "heavy lifting," and then present options to the commissioners.

In any case, no contract was signed. The commissioners voted to move on with getting a contract started with Balfour Beatty, but they must still approve the terms. If not, then the runner-up, Turner Construction, could come back into play.

Incentives Those incentives paid out to big business could get spread out a little more under a plan that's in the works from vice chairman Steve Arnold.

The incentives that the county offers are paid back after a company pays its taxes and meets requirements for hiring and investment. It's what most folks would call a rebate.

Arnold, a big fiscal conservative who opposes most any incentive and tax increase, wants to look at that incentive process, possibly make it less easy for the big guys and easier for the smaller ones. His plan is still in-progress, but it appears he may have some more support from other board members for the second look.

Davis said he'd like to see them spread out to smaller businesses.

The incentives, which existing companies can apply for, are open to any business, Democrat Kirk Perkins countered.

Anyway, the retreat will likely not be the last time commissioners go over incentives this year. Arnold appears to have momentum to update the policy.

"It is a work in progress," Arnold said.

Efficiency in construction

A program at N.C. A&T will look for ways to save money that include better, more efficient technology in Guilford County Buildings.

After a presentation from university professors on the CERT program there. It's things like better light bulbs and auto-adjusting HVAC equipment that costs more up front, but would pay back through cheaper utility bills in a few years.

Professors and students would go into county buildings and find ways to save energy

"Originally this work was just for state-owned buildings," said Robert Powell, an A&T engineering professor, "and the county is now eligible for that."

They'll start on the county's mental health center downtown - from lights to windows and more - and then move on to others, including plans for new construction such as the jail.

With the exception of one thing.

"We’re not big on windows in the jail," said Sheriff BJ Barnes, which brought an uproar of laughter in the room.

Here's some information on the county's bond sale, who bought it, and other notes and news from the final offering statement.

There's a ton of good info on the bonds and the county's finances in there, but it takes a lot of time to sift through.

So, you want the experience of the Barack Obama inauguration, without the travel, chill or expense?

Then scoot over to Carousel Cinemas Tuesday. The theater is showing the 2009 Presidential Inauguration, free, on the big screen in hi-def. Doors open at 10:30 a.m. and seating is at 10:35 a.m.

And for the few folks who want to get the heck out of D.C. to make way for the festivities, the Triad is nice this time of year.

Maybe it's quality of life, or access to plenty of good parts of the state. Or, maybe, it's the Board of Commissioners themselves.

We here at 'Scoop spend a good deal of time on the county's Web site, which gets updated at times with a new photo. Lately it's been the old county courthouse. This week, a cutout of the county commissioners was added, superimposed over the courthouse.

If you go by the idea that politicians are a reflection of the community, then it's a group that does look a lot like the community it governs.

Tomorrow is the first meeting since the county saw a county manager, deputy manager and county attorney leave.

The typically outspoken board may meet with some interesting things to say to one-another, especially since several commissioners have said that they weren't contacted before decisions were made that could have fired or forced out former county manager David McNeill, deputy manager Ben Brown or county attorney Sharron Kurtz. And a replacement for Kurtz is supposed to be discussed, too, to hire Tom Terrell and Smith Moore Leatherwood at a rate of $12,000 a month for 20-hour workweeks.

Here's that section of a memo on the contract.

Guilford County will pay Smith Moore Leatherwood $12,000 per month to the services outlined above, plus any out-of-pocket expenses reasonably incurred. This monthly retainer is based on the assumption that we will provide approximately 20 hours per week of work on County matters, and it represents ad 55% reduction in my standard hourly rate. This retainer will be pro-rated if services are rendered less than a full month. I will track my own and other attorneys' time closely. If the demand for services covered by the monthly retainer is substantially higher or lower than an average 20 hours per week, then we will revisit the arrangement at the end of January.

We talked to a few commissioners today in preparation of the meeting, and some said they think it will go smoothly. Others think differently.

Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston:

"It’s up to commissioners to say what they want to happen," he said, adding that he's talked with all the commissioners except Mike Winstead and Paul Gibson.

Bolstering that thought, he said that he told the efficient government committee Tuesday that no matter what they decide, it will come down to the board to see gets cut and what doesn't.

"It all has to come back down to a vote ... and in a meeting," Alston said.

Vice chairman Steve Arnold

Arnold referred to a permitting process for a landfill that the county has been considering for several months, from an issue that's several years old involving A1 Sandrock. Other than that, he didn't refer to much else that could be raised among commissioners.

Arnold did say this about the contract, which he said may have some sticker shock, but comes with added value.

"It sounds high, but it would be higher if we hired him or anyone on a per-hour basis. And he’s going to do more than 20 hours per week."

Commissioner Carolyn Coleman:

"There may be questions from commissioners and there may be discussion," she said. "I just don't know."

Coleman said that there could be some questions from the commissioners about a legislative plan, which the county updates each year.

"I don’t know how much time it’s going to take and I do have questions for the resolution and the processes."

As for the changes, Coleman said that seeing the county manager, deputy manager and county attorney out are typical moves where she comes from in state government.

"Whenever a new governor is elected, all of the appointees leave," she said.

Yet the governor's office is an executive office, and the county commissioners work as local legislators. So Coleman made it an example about the General Assembly.

"You get a new speaker, he’s going to bring in a new staff."

Commissioner Mike Winstead

"I didn’t agree with Ben’s decision, and I didn’t agree with Sharron's," Winstead said, "And Sharron was a good attorney in my opinion."

"It should’ve been figured out before she left, for a group that’s trying to save money," he said, "for a part timer they’re payign $12,000, and how they came up with that firm, I don’t know. Ain't anybody been calling me since the first day that they decided to do what they did with David."

He said that he's not happy with how it appears that the decisions were being made to collect votes for McNeill's and other departures.

"There's got be an agenda and there’s got be a plan, and there's got to be a method to it," he said. "It’s not the best for Guilford County."

Winstead was not happy with simply gathering six votes to make a decision, either.

"You can't just go out and barley squeak by on a vote," he said.

Still, he's interested to see what the efficiency committee might come up with, particularly with the business minds that are there, too.

"Those are guys who are community guys, and they can make good decsions."

Commissioner Billy Yow

Yow was his usual quotable self, and had a lot to say.

On Alston's commitment to be more open with the public - "He’s not been the chairman for a solid month and he’s already started lying and he’s already started spending like he’s on some shopping spree."

On Kurtz' departure - "They never took the opportunity to sit down and discuss this openly, and there's an issue here. Skip says he was disrespected, as if he’s never disrespected anybody before."

On the rest of the commissioners, who have not said whether they supported or opposed removing McNeill, Brown or Kurtz - "They’re gutless … they cannot face their peers they can't stand before a reporter and say that they were in support of it."

Meanwhile, Alston was on the television news today, answering questions about a lot of things we and others have covered, too.

What: Guilford County commissioners meeting
When: 5:30 p.m. Thursday
Where: Old County Courthouse, 301 W. Market St., Greensboro
On TV: Cable channel 13 in Greensboro and other areas of Guilford County outside High Point; cable channel 8 in High Point.
What’s going on? Two policy changes aimed at the county’s personnel. One would limit the benefits extended to employees affected by a reduction in force — the government term for a layoff. The new policy would require a two-week notice or two weeks extra severance pay, and would reduce maximum severance pay benefits from the current four months to three months.
The other policy would clarify how county employees can use cell phones and limit that use to county-related business only.
Want to be heard? Speakers can address the board on nonagenda items regarding county business for three minutes at the start of the meeting. A sign up sheet will be available near the lectern.
Full agenda and live video
What’s next? Guilford County, and its approximately 2,600 employees appears headed toward a layoff, or some big department cuts since an efficiency committee began meeting this week and the county is looking at its policy on layoff benefits. Also, commissioners and department heads are already beginning budget planning for 2009-10.

This morning, the Effective, Efficient Government Committee met for about an hour that looked like a crash-course orientation to review highlights of efficiency in Guilford County over the past year or so.

The committee is the first meeting, that we know of, for the committees that Alston announced in December.

Here's the group:

Commissioner Carolyn Coleman, committee chairwoman
Robert Chiles, Sr., former banker and real estate developer
Mark Kiel, vice chancellor for development and university relations, N.C. A&T
Skip Moore, president of the Weaver Foundation
Commissioner Kirk Perkins
Steve Showfety, CEO, Koury Corp.

Ex Officio members:
Board of Commissioners Chairman Melvin “Skip” Alston
Board of Commissioners Vice Chairman Steve Arnold

A lot of the conversation was just getting the group up to speed on what's going on in the county for efficiency purposes.

- There's an ongoing strategic plan happening that's looking at county services, combining departments and reviewing the funding outcomes.

- The county has a vacancy committee to review job openings and make potential holds to those, which has been underway since the commissioners passed their 2008-09 budget - and necessary, because they passed it with a $900,000 shortfall.

Shortly after Alston and Arnold took leadership of the board, they got schools, the sheriff and GTCC together to see if they would look for only projects they could fund in 2009 with bond money. That cut the amount they needed to issue in bonds by about 1/3.

And the business folks collected there wanted to know some more boilerplate info on the county, too, the kind of thing that was the subject of an efficiency study in September.

But there's one interesting question, here. If this is a committee designed to look at the budget, and this committee is looking at a lot of things that the county already has, then why did they have to go about things this way? How did the county manager stand in the way of things? And was it so difficult to assemble an advisory panel of business leaders anyway, even if McNeill stuck around?

From the looks of the meeting this morning, it appears that Chiles, Moore, Kiel and Showfety - who are successful in their various fields - have some zeal for volunteering their time to work on the committee.

Yet it sounded as if this group would be doing a lot of similar tasks that the Board of Commissioners sets out to accomplish in its work sessions and budget hearings throughout the year. What do you wonks out there think of the whole thing?

Today we had this story on the other Kirk Perkins, who ran and won a seat on the Guilford County Soil and Water Conservation District Board of Supervisors.

Thing is, he didn't show up. So we talked to a few of the folks close to the issue, such as the Board of Supervisors chairman, George Teague, and the runner-up to the seat, Andrew Courts. We also spoke with people in the Board of Elections office and the county's planning department to get information, but were not quoted.

And the issue has gotten some attention elsewhere, too.

According to Teague, county Commissioner C.F. “Kirk” Perkins III showed up at a Soil and Water meeting to meet the other guy with the same name.

We didn't catch up with the commissioner yesterday before the story, but we called him this morning, and he had this to say:

"I thought that if you would’ve written a front page article, you would’ve at least have gotten a quote from me."

Then he said he was "going to a meeting" and got off the phone.

Going back through our notes and call logs, since 12/19, when we began working on the story of the two Perkins, we've called Commissioner Kirk Perkins on his home and cellphone at least three times and left messages.

True, we didn't call him yesterday. But we haven't been hearing much from the commissioner lately, not since David McNeill announced his retirement, anyway. In fact, we approached him during the recess after McNeill's announcement, and Perkins, before we could ask him anything, said "No comment," and hurried away into a waiting room where the commissioners hang out. Since then, any phone messages we have left for Perkins have not been returned, even as the deputy manager and county attorney resigned.

And this only gets some attention on 'Scoop, because the commissioner - especially as chairman of the board - has historically been very good about getting in touch with us, even if it happened at the end of the day.

We're doing a story on what may lie in store for the 2009 budget in Guilford County.

And there may well be a property tax rate increase in store, even though the county said today that it will try to sell bonds at about one-third less than they planned on Jan. 13. They'll go for $164.6 million instead of $232 million.

The lower amount shouldn't change any projects, but is instead adjusted only for jobs that will happen in 2009.

So that means that Eastern Guilford High School will still get construction money, and nothing else should be delayed, according to Brenda Jones Fox.

Here's the original bond expenditures, under the $232 million:

From the 2004 bond referenda-
GTCC $15.5 million
Parks $7.5 million

From the 2008 bond referenda-
EGHS $45 million
Guilford County jail $39.615 million
Schools $100 million
GTCC $25 million

And the new $164.6 million figure:

From the 2004 referenda-
GTCC $15.5 million
Parks $2.5

From the 2008 referenda:
EGHS $45 million
Guilford County jail $7 million
Schools $85 million
GTCC $9.6 million

Commissioner Carolyn Coleman called up this morning to ask whether a line we used in today's story on the county commissioners was true.

As a boilerplate, let's assume that journalism, as a whole, is as truthful, fair and balanced as humans can accomplish.

Now, then. Here's the line:

An official gathering of members of a public body must happen in public with minutes documented. A group can meet and correspond informally, unless, according to the law, the meeting is "held to evade the spirit and purposes of this Article."

"If board members devised a plan to corral votes behind the scenes and in a way that evades the spirit of the open meetings law, I believe you do have an argument that what they did violated the law," Ashley Matlock Perkinson, an attorney for the N.C. Press Association, wrote in an e-mail.

Which was in reference to the calls made by commissioners Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston and vice chairman Steve Arnold to gather support on the Board of Commissioners to remove David McNeill and Ben Brown's position - which led to McNeill's retirement and Brown's resignation.

"To me, this is nothing new," Coleman said, "this is the way that business had been done since I had been on the board."

She said that often a commissioner will bring up an idea and pass it around the commissioners to see if it has support before going public with it. Depending on your view, to some, it's shopping an idea. To others, it may be working back-room deals.

Whatever you call it, Coleman is right - those types of talks among commissioners are nothing new. When working on the 2008-09 budget, the commissioners privately discussed deals in the weeks ahead of the official vote.

"Commissioner A decides that he wants to do something, and he approaches Commissioner B and tells him and calls Commissioner C and tells him," Coleman said, giving an example of how the talks progress. "All you're doing is sharing your idea."

Scoop isn't so naive as to think that there's no chit-chat behind closed doors. But the public should be well aware that those conversations, under law, don't have to occur privately between commissioners. Also, we know that all humans are prone to err, and your elected representatives tend to forget the state rules which govern their actions.

In the case of the county manager and the talks that led to his departure, those conversations could have happened in an official meeting, but in a closed session. The minutes of the meeting would have still been recorded, even if they were never released to the public.

Let's drill down a little more. When asked if she believed that the conversations between commissioners that gathered the votes to fire McNeill should occur before the public (even if in closed session), Coleman said:

"I will not give you an explicit answer because it’s not that simple."

and

"You want me to say 'yes' or 'no'," she said. "First of all I would have to admit that I’m trying to avoid the open meetings law."

So, about the conversation itself?

"I don’t think it’s wrong," she said, "the caveat being trying to avoid the open meetings law, and if you do that then it is wrong."

You be the judge. Of course, we journalism types are inclined to get as much information on things as we can, so it's somewhat obvious where our loyalties lie. In this case, it's to access information dealing with the public's money.

Put much more bluntly, Friend-of-Scoop and N&R online reporter John Newsom said this about private meetings, "You better have a good ------- reason."

While on the topic of McNeill, Kay Cashion called us this morning with this message. Apparently she has been out of town in the last week or so.

"I was not one of the group making the decisions to release the manager or attorney," she said.

Nobody called her about the issue, either.

"The chair (Alston) had not made me aware of what his plans are," Cashion said about the plans to remove McNeill and Brown.

A few questions:

Who did know? Was it the full board? Was there any opportunity given for someone to oppose McNeill's removal?

Even if McNeill's predecessor Willie Best was fired in an extremely charged meeting, at least it occurred in the public eye.

Here's a nice little compilation of what the online scuttlebutt is in the days since Guilford County's manager, deputy manager and attorey stepped down.

Ed Cone asks one blunt question.

David Hoggard muses on a tiger changing its stripes.

Guarino gives his roundup on the "new direction".

If you're home this week visiting for the holidays, here's the background on what's been going on from the N&R.

So what questions do you have about all this? E-mail me. I'd like to hear from you.

UPDATE: If you'd like to apply for county manager, here's the link.

In the talks that we've had with Board of Commissioners Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston, he said that there are changes coming in the county.

One, which caused deputy county manager Ben Brown to lose his job is a plan to reconfigure the county's administration to look more like Mecklenburg County, according to Alston.

Here, there's a county manager, a deputy manager, and a bunch of department heads beyond that.

In Mecklenburg county there's a manager and a team of focus areas, each with one head.

There are plenty of ways that this community could configure its government, but there could be a good amount of upheaval to go along with it. Questions for you close watchers of government:

What do you think is the best way to run things? Will it make a difference?

We've been watching the big screw that is Guilford County gub'ment turn.

So new chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston is telling us that he and Steve Arnold are meeting with county employees and with department heads and with other folks in the county about all kinds of issues.

Why aren't we hearing much about it?

"It’s not required to happen in public," Alston said. "I don't think that it needs to be aired in public, and these are individuals that have lives after Guilford County, and their situations and the private thoughts should be discussed in private."

Personnel matters are private business. But what about the reconfiguring of government, which included cutting Ben Brown's position of deputy county manager? That doesn't appear to be personnel - such as an individual's review - it's a change in the structure of government itself.

"First of all, I have to talk to the individual who is in the position," Alston said. "And I have to respect the person who is in that positon first and let them know that the position is going to be removed, and then discuss it out in public."

Some discussions he has planned must be done in public - such as those committees that will look at the budget, efficiency and other issues. But there's always the chance that one public official will meet with another public official.

"If I’m going to meet with another commissioner, that’s not a part of the open meetings law ... and I can meet with any commissioner," Alston said.

Sure. But not with the intent of avoiding the open meetings law. Let's see what the statute says, and where the grey area may be.

This is a public body, according to N.C. G.S. 143‑318.10. (b):

"public body" means any elected or appointed authority, board, commission, committee, council, or other body of the State, or of one or more counties, cities, school administrative units, constituent institutions of The University of North Carolina, or other political subdivisions or public corporations in the State that (i) is composed of two or more members and (ii) exercises or is authorized to exercise a legislative, policy‑making, quasi‑judicial, administrative, or advisory function.

So that appears to clear up the question of those committees. Let's see what's considered an actual official meeting.

"Official meeting" means a meeting, assembly, or gathering together at any time or place or the simultaneous communication by conference telephone or other electronic means of a majority of the members of a public body for the purpose of conducting hearings, participating in deliberations, or voting upon or otherwise transacting the public business within the jurisdiction, real or apparent, of the public body.

What can the public rightfully see about those committee actions?

Every public body shall keep full and accurate minutes of all official meetings, including any closed sessions held pursuant to G.S. 143‑318.11. Such minutes may be in written form or, at the option of the public body, may be in the form of sound or video and sound recordings. When a public body meets in closed session, it shall keep a general account of the closed session so that a person not in attendance would have a reasonable understanding of what transpired. Such accounts may be a written narrative, or video or audio recordings. Such minutes and accounts shall be public records within the meaning of the Public Records Law

But these folks are commissioners, and they show up at a lot of the same places at the same time, and talk about business too. But there are other meetings that happen. Remember, Alston said: "If I’m going to meet with another commissioner, that’s not a part of the open meetings law ... and I can meet with any commissioner."

Yeah, but not to avoid those laws. Let's hear the rest of N.C. G.S. 143‑318.10. (b):

However, a social meeting or other informal assembly or gathering together of the members of a public body does not constitute an official meeting unless called or held to evade the spirit and purposes of this Article.

One can read this to mean that any gathering of any number of members of that public body (Board of Commissioners, chairman's committees, etc.) is a gathering. It does not say in that sentence that it must be a quorum - a majority of members. But it does say that if that gathering is done with the intent of evading the laws governing the meetings of public bodies, then it is indeed a public meeting, subject to the full documentation of minutes and so on.

So what do you think? Are those meetings, talks and chats with Alston and other commissioners being done to "evade the spirit and purposes" of the law?

Do you want those deliberations recorded?

Do you think that the politicans that govern this county have the right to discuss county matters at their discretion? Of course, there are those incidential conversations between commissioners. How far do you think that can go? What are you OK with?

So this week's latest turn in county government is that David McNeill is being forced out of his seat by Guilford County commissioners.

That is, there's enough votes on the 11-member board to get him fired, according to some commissioners, so he may opt to retire instead.

So why would they ask him to leave? Commissioner Paul Gibson, who actually backs McNeill, said that the new leadership is looking to have more control over county affairs. Which is something that Democratic Chairman Melvin "Skip" Alston and Republican Vice Chairman Steve Arnold they said - in a way - that they are looking to gather.

There's sure to be more to this, but it's not all coming out just yet. And the new leadership on the board, which said it would have more communication with the media (and, via that, its constituents), was nowhere to be found today. We tried Arnold and Alston by phone twice today, each in the morning and in the evening. No calls back yet from either. We'll see how tomorrow goes.

With newsprint being what it costs these days, we can't cram all of what the county commissioners had to say on the new leadership and the 2009-10 budget into one story.

While Chairman Skip Alston and Vice Chairman Steve Arnold want to look at the budget with big-time scrutiny, another commissioner says that it's not the board's place to look over department budgets (Paul Gibson) and another says that it will be the same ol', same ol' (Billy Yow). But others (Commissioners Kay Cashion, Carolyn Coleman, Bruce Davis and Linda Shaw) want to get involved with the committees that will look at separate parts of the budget.

So here's a little more on what they said. We didn't hear from John Parks (missed connection), and Kirk Perkins and Mike Winstead didn't return messages.

Alston:

"Our challenge for the staff will be to do more with less and (for commissioners) to meet with the department heads and the budget directors and the managers and make sure they are online and geared up for this challenge."

He said he believes that he has six votes on the 11-member board to do the work.

"It’s not going to be my job or Steve’s job to run the county on a day-to-day basis, but we will be holding them more accountable," he said, adding that "no department is going to go untouched."

The committees will consist of three to five members that could include commissioners and a mix of staff.

This pairing is unique in that Alston, a Democrat, is one of the most outspoken members on the board and not afraid to wrangle with anyone, while Republican Arnold considers himself as "the most conservative" member.

"I’ve been at one end of the totem pole and he’s been a the other," Alston said, "And now I have agreed to see that we can come to some meeting of the minds."

Arnold:

Steve Arnold has always wanted to get into the nitty-gritty with the budget, but just didn't have the audience among the rest of the commissioners. And he pointed to the 2008-09 budget as an example.

"We didn’t have all the various departments come before the board," he said. "Those that did were the larger ones and they were in for what, 30 minutes?"

Well, not exactly everyone maxed out at 30 minutes, but there were a few departments that didn't speak at length during the budget hearings. Arnold is all for the committee process, and starting the budget hearings sooner. And he thinks that the foul economic winds might help the harmony between parties that seems to exist now.

"These particular times that we’re living in right now demand full and responsible accounting from elected officials," he said.

And one long-standing policy that he's been after - spreading tax incentives to all businesses - may gain momentum among the board.

"In effect we would be giving that tax abatement to new or added value for 2-3 years, to all property that would be identified as commercial."

Cashion:

Kay Cashion was considered a frontrunner for the chairmanship, but didn't carry enough votes to win. She's on board for the committees, from the sound of things, though, and knockin a few heads together to shake out ideas.

"We need to try to figure out how we're going to try to handle the needs of the community and still be as conservative as we can, with the obligations that we have."

Coleman:

Carolyn Coleman worked with Arnold when she was the chairman the last time, and so knows a few things about the nuances there.

Shoot, they whole board knows each-other pretty well. They have been together for four years already. After this next four years of the same commissioners, they could qualify as united under a civil union (not really, but it's funny to think about).

"With Steve (Arnold), he’s always concerned with the budget," she said. "And with Republicans, they want no tax increase, so that’s one of the things I know that he wants. And all of us want to bring some efficiencies."

Davis:

"I supported it 100 percent," he said of the decision in the board's leadership. "It’s probably the type leadership that we could use right now. That is a diverse group, bringing the Republicans and Democrats to the table. At least we’ll get everyone’s ideas."

He said that discussions are ongoing among the board members as those committees get put together ...

Gibson:

... unless you're Paul Gibson, who said he hasn't heard from anyone beyond the day the new chairman and vice chairman were selected.

As one of those dissenting votes, he wasn't too keen on Alston taking over the board.

"Mussolini had the trains running on time," he said. "I think everybody on our board wants to have a budget process that’s open and transparent, and we started the process a few years ago with the strategic planning process and budgeting for outcomes."

The strategic planning process was intended to bridge department together for greater efficiency, and budgeting for outcomes quantifies the results of spending process in government. Gibson is more likely to let the county departments run with the staff hired to lead them, and offer suggestions to run instead of intense scrutiny. He believes that Alston and Arnold are about to micromanage the county government and it's roughly 2,500 employees.

"I think we’re getting ready to go into a horrible, horrible situation," Gibson said.

Shaw:

Linda Shaw was in the conversation to be the vice chairman, but stepped aside.

"But the timing wasn’t good for me," she said, though she is on board to pow-wow with the new leadership on the budget, sitting down with department heads, and scrutinizing the budget by line-item.

"I think it will be a stronger record," Shaw said, "and I hope we will all start working together and do what’s best."

Yow:

There's another guy who thinks it won't work - Billy Yow.

"That’s all great in concept, but will it come to reality? That’s yet to be seen," Yow said.

He said that it only takes 6 votes to make a decision, and Democrats hold a majority on the board, with 7 members. He also said that he's heard the call for bipartisanship before.

"I’ve heard bipartisanship and nonpartisanship every time," he said, "and they do it until somebody wants something, and you’ll see it time and time again. It’s who’s got the votes?"

He's not all doom and gloom in Yow's view.

"And I hope that we can all get along and be in a more productive line," he said, with a caveat. "You’re not going to see six people with the conservative views of myself and Steve Arnold."

"The icing ain't on the cake as smooth as you would like it," he said, with a challenge to the goals Arnold and Alston said. “Show me.”

We hear that Guilford County's new Vice Chairman Steve Arnold is calling into question whether the bonds should go to market as scheduled in January.

As it stands, that was never a firm rule. At the last minute the county can pull out.

And the line all along is that it's been too soon to tell whether the bond market will be ready for the municipal bond sale when the time comes, but overall, county funds are OK for now.

Though the county's AAA bond rating would help the sale, according to analysts. And the bonds could be moved, as we previously reported in a story about stalled school projects:

If the bonds don't sell in January, Fox said it could be months before they attempt it again.

However, at least one municipal bond expert is optimistic about the county's ability to sell in January - partly because of its AAA credit rating.

"High grade securities like the county should have reasonably good market access," said Matt Fabian, managing director at Municipal Market Advisors. "The high grade securities market is recovering, it actually has pretty much won back all of the losses it had in October."

We're watching who may become the next chairman of the Guilford County Board of Commissioners, and while nobody is willing to call it just yet, it appears that Commissioner Melvin "Skip" Alston may be more of a frontrunner than he's letting on.

"I would love to be chairman, but I don’t think I have the votes, I think it’s going to be Kay (Cashion) and John Parks," Alston said.

The next chairman, commissioners have said, could be either Cashion or Alston, who are both Democrats. It seems that Alston is edging ahead for now.

"I’d say right now that Skip’s the frontrunner," said Chairman Kirk Perkins, who will hand the reins over to another chairman on Dec. 1. The next chairman is expected to be a Democrat, as the majority party on the board. The chairman sets the agendas and leads the discussion of the Board of Commissioners. They also can help determine which issues get more attention than others through that power.

And a couple Republicans we talked to today seemed to be leaning toward Alston.

"I hadn't really had a chance to sit down and talk with Kay," said Republican Commissioner Linda Shaw. "At this point, I was leaning toward Skip."

Even Republican Commissioner Billy Yow seemed to get behind Alston. The two have become somewhat notorious for their heated discussions between one-another in meetings.

"Skip is the most influential among the many of them," said Yow, referring to the majority that Democrats have on the 11-member board. "He’s, by far, the most knowledgeable of the Democrats."

Alston may also be gaining favor by saying he'd support a Republican for a vice chairman.

"If I was chairman I would insist that we have Republican," Alston said.

For the past year, Alston has hammered on setting up some type of efficiency plan for the county that would look at positions, department expenses and other aspects of spending in the county departments - something that's attractive to Republicans.

"I know the bonds passed and I know that we’re probably going to have problems solve," Shaw said, referring to an almost-certain property tax rate increase expected in next year's budget that would be linked to bond referenda that passed in May.

Shaw mentioned that she appreciates Alston's ongoing emphasis on efficiency. Yow is also on board with Alston's plans.

"In the last couple of years, I think some of me and Steve (Arnold) has rubbed off on (Alston)," Yow said. Commissioner Steve Arnold often opposes any tax increases, and resists spending increases too.

"I think when you talk about efficiency, that Skip and I line up very well," Yow said.

Cashion did not return phone calls, and Parks is out of the country.

This post from our religion blog prompted Scoop to wonder what the write-in candidates from Guilford County looked like.

We'll paw through the info Geoge Gilbert, director of elections, plans to send. But for now, chomp of these tidbits:

Two people wrote-in Aquaman for soil and water commissioner.

And for school board?

"We have one for satan," Gilbert said.

The short answer is, we don't know who will take the chairmanship for 2009.

Last week we had a piece that maybe it would be Kay Cashion, the current vice chair of the Guilford County Board of Commissioners. But Melvin "Skip" Alston isn't out of the hunt, either.

Some have also kicked around the thought of John Parks for next year's vice chairman. But Parks is out of the country and can't be contacted.

The chairman sets the agenda and is responsible for running the meetings. That person can determine who has the floor and when by a bang of the gavel - assuming that the rest of the board pays attention to who is holding that gavel.

Other outlets watching the commissioners seem perplexed, too.

We've been trying to get up with commissioners this week to get a sense of things this week, but the Republicans say they don't have a say on the Democrat-dominated board over who will be chairman next year.

"I’ve heard Kay and John I’ve heard Skip," said Republican Commissioner Linda Shaw. "I don’t' know, we’re not in control."

That may not be the case, however, depending upon how the lines get drawn. Kirk Perkins, chairman until Dec. 1, was selected with a 10-1 vote, definitely a bipartisan decision. And since the board members that have been in place for the last term will stay in power for at least another two years, one can count on the personalities remaining the same, regardless of the person selected for the leadership position.

A little more than a month ago, we posted here about an ongoing cancer study in Guilford County's Information Systems department. Last week, according to a weekly note from County Manager David McNeill, it was reviewed a little more in depth by some outside agencies. From his note:

A team from NIOSH (National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health), a part of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), met with the Information Services (IS) staff regarding the Cancer Cluster Study conducted by the Health Department on November 12th. The team concluded that their review of the data and the employees’ surveys did not indicate an increase risk of developing cancer at their work site. Yesterday, the team conducted electromagnetic readings throughout the IS area to determine if a possible health hazard exists within this location.

The "yesterday" that he refers to was Thursday. So what are you hearing? Comment below, or, if you want, contact me directly by e-mail.

Today we called several county commissioners about some issues that are hanging out there: the jail construction, picking a chairman for 2009, building a health clinic for southeast Greensboro and a few other things.

We heard back from all of them, except for missed connections from Commissioners Kirk Perkins and Carolyn Coleman, and John Parks, who is out of the country, according to Kay Cashion.

Commissioners Steve Arnold, Bruce Davis and Mike Winstead didn't return a voicemail left at each cell number.

That they didn't call is no big deal, people get busy. We're just looking for the overall sentiment of what their plans are for the coming year, since all incumbents won in the election and the board will be the same as it was before the election until at least 2010.

And in our chatting Tuesday, we learned a few other tidbits about the next potential chairman (or chairwoman) and a few other things...

Just as city council members and county commissioners were wrapping up their joint lunch session Tuesday afternoon, Commissioner Billy Yow took that opportunity to point out some displeasure about Mayor Yvonne Johnson's promotion of Sen. Barack Obama.

Johnson recorded a robo call for the Democratic presidential candidate, in which she identified herself as the mayor of Greensboro.

Yow, and apparently some constituents, were dismayed that the nonpartisan mayor would support a partisan candidate -- using her title no less.

"Some folks have really taken offense to this," said Yow, a Republican.

Johnson, a Democrat, said she checked with the city legal department before becoming a spokeswoman for Obama. So long as she didn't use any city resources to campaign, she's in the clear.

"It's legal to do so," she told Yow.

Thursday was the Board of Commissioners' night to commemorate High Point's sesquicentennial, and they did it by holding a meeting in the High Point City Council chambers.

There's no live TV for High Point meetings, but the commissioners show their meetings live.

Not Thursday. The earliest TV sighting of the commissioners' came Friday morning, because the county had to bring lights and cameras to the meeting. Danged technology.

Wired up and ready to go, the board got on with recognizing High Point's 150th birthday in 2009.

Mayor Becky Smothers, known for wry humor and a quick wit, accepted the proclamation and told the county to remember the city 'come budget season as she shook hands with the 11 commissioners. Or at least the ones she didn't see already.

"I've already shaken your hand," she told several board members and she went down the line. Then she got to the end, to get the resolution.

"Y’all frame it and everything," she said.

Fancy.

While High Point keeps it simple - there's no TV cameras in the city hall of the state's 8th largest city - they also don't offer Wifi. Which really makes it hard for Scoop to update its Facebook page and Twitter the commissioners' away game.

Guilford County is studying the prevalence of cancer in the Information Services department, and held a meeting last week with employees to give an update on the ongoing study.

There does not appear to be a higher rate of cancer in the department than in any other community group at this point, according to the Guilford County Department of Public Health.

Several cases of cancer have been reported in the IS department, the area of county government charged with handling the computer, software and technology needs for running the county. There does not appear to be any links between the cases, according to Mark Smith, an epidemiologist in the health department who is studying the situation.

A normal cancer rate is about 7 cases per 100 people. The rate in the IS department, based on information Smith has received, is about the same. And there are several different types of cancer among the reported cases, which would further stretch any links among them.

But the study is incomplete, he said in a meeting with the department last week, because not all the surveys have been turned in.

County Manager David McNeill said he's not yet ready to make a call on whether the IS department is facing any higher incidences of cancer or not.

"I’m going to wait until the findings are complete," he said, "and then the findings will be presented to the employees in the area."

What: Guilford County commissioners meeting.
When: 5:30 p.m. Thursday.
Where: 211 S. Hamilton St., High Point.
On TV: Cable channel 13 in Greensboro and other areas of Guilford County outside High Point; cable channel 8 in High Point. It will not be televised live, however. It may be streamed live online.
What’s going on? This is the High Point edition of the Guilford County commissioners meeting. The meeting features a fairly thin agenda, as well. The board will hear a presentation on a park specifically for handicapped children. Commissioner Steve Arnold also said he plans to address early voting locations.
Want to be heard? Speakers can address the board on non-agenda items regarding county business for three minutes at the start of the meeting. A signup sheet will be available near the lectern.
Full agenda and live video.
What’s next? Probably not much that’s controversial. It’s election season, and three commissioners are seeking re-election. Incumbents won’t be looking to rock the boat with controversial issues just several weeks ahead of the election.

Maybe you've noticed Guilford Sheriff BJ Barnes' iconic goatee.

It's gone.

Why?

Thursday at a Jail Advisory Committee meeting, Barnes faced a few county administrators and commissioners who wore that expression that says "there's something different about you."

"It's getting loose up here," Barnes said, as he pointed to top of his head. Then Barnes rubbed is now-bare chin. "And it's getting white down here."

"I thought you looked younger," said Vice Chairwoman Kay Cashion.

"To be honest with you Kay, that was the idea," Barnes said of his sleek new look.

We heard that Oil of Olay really shaves off the years, too. That's what Gramma Scoop always told us.

You could have fresh, clean air in your home or work, thanks - kind of - to Guilford County.

All you need is a one green American dollar to pick up an old HEPA filter that from a health clinic that didn't sell in Saturday's surplus auction.

Old cop cars went for about $2,000. Buses: $900 apiece.

Scoop sees a great chance here in the next auction (March 28) to save up some change and get that sweet old Crown Vic that we've been eyeballing.

And the county's take from Saturday: $59,406.50.

If you still want that filter, call down to the county's purchasing department at 641-3226.

Our local governing bodies are known for their epic meetings and feisty exchanges.

And Scoop was fully caffeinated, ready for another round for county commissioners Thursday. The meeting began at its usual time, about 5 minutes after its official listed time of 5:30 p.m. But one particularly vocal member wasn't there: Democratic Commissioner Melvin "Skip" Alston.

"Well let’s hurry up so we won’t have to deal with him," Republican Commissioner Billy Yow said about Alston, who came in a few minutes later. He was driving from a state real estate commission meeting in Raleigh that afternoon.

Alston and Yow are approaching legendary status with their boardroom antics. The two will talk over one-another, even ignoring the chairman's gavel for order as they jockey to get in a last word in a hot debate. And either will lecture at length if an issue sparks their interest.

Before leaving, Scoop asked Alston what he thought of Yow's comment.

"Hey Billy," Alston, chuckling, said to Yow, "maybe the meeting would go faster if I weren't here."

Whether it's Alston, Yow, or any of the 11 commissioners, when a politician gets going about a pet issue, there's no stopping them.

Scoop and others at the press table were just excited that there was daylight left when the meeting ended about 7 p.m. Often the board usually goes on until 9 p.m. or later, and hey, we've all got families to see and beer to sip.

... is hearing an elected official say that a meeting agenda looks dull. That can only mean, by rule of Murphy's Law, that tonight's meeting will be full of suspense, fireworks and the good gov't action that keeps dedicated legions of Scoopsters coming for more.

Well, here's the agenda for tonight's county commissioners meeting.

A few highlights include locking down an interest rate for $100 million of the county's finances, some riot gear for the county jail and a presentation on the county's new method for collecting taxes.

And then there's the sales tax. Commissioner Linda Shaw, who told us this morning that tonight's meeting looks a little dull, said she hopes to talk to the commissioners supporting the sales tax about how that the ball should get rolling. If it's going to pass, then there should be a little more promotion before the public in time for the fall election.

"We've only got about 50-some days before the election," she said.

Election Day is 46 days from today. And absentee balloting has begun. Early voting begins Oct. 16.

A few commissioners questioned when the best time was to make decisions during Tuesday's work session.

In a recent work session during the doldrums of summer, a couple important decisions happened though not all commissioners were present. Most notable among the decisions was on how to build the $115 million jail.

This was an issue before with previous boards - making decisions during work sessions and agenda meetings. Doing so isn't illegal if a majority of the board is present, but the decisions aren't during the usual times when the board does its deciding in front of the lights and camera of a regular Thursday meeting.

Commissioner Linda Shaw spoke up against taking votes in work sessions during Tuesday's work session, something that didn't bother Commissioner Bruce Davis. And Shaw also suggested having an extra meeting per month.

Incidentally, the board already has two meeting per month during most months of the year, except summer months, when many take vacations.

"It’s a waste of time to sit here and talk," and not vote, Davis said, adding that some agenda items keep getting pushed back because a board member to hear about it separately during the time that's set for regular meetings.

Commissioner Carolyn Coleman agreed with Shaw's stance on work session voting, adding that she wanted to be able to vote in a time that was televised - which is the regular commissioners meeting.

"We vote for the citizens," Davis said, alluding to the power of an elected official to represent his or her constituents.

Later in the work session, as the board chose not to fund two items that had already had funding pulled or denied for one reason or another, Shaw refused to vote (which is counted as an automatic no), while the others in attendance voted as they would any other time there's a quorum present. Coleman, along with Davis, participated in both votes.

There are several ways that a group can ask for funding from the Guilford County commissioners, but the typical way is through an application process for a grant in the regular budget. In Thursday's meeting, there appeared to be an attempt to get around that.

But for the uninitiated, a little background could help explain why it seemed peculiar.

And this the applicant list for 2008-09 looked like this. Pay special attention to line 11 for Nia Community Action Center. This will come up later.

Throughout the year, funding needs come up and are often paid for with the county's contingency fund, a fund often used for unexpected costs. One example of the county tapping this in the last year was when the state ordered the Guilford County Sheriff's Office to come up with 28 detention officers midway through the year. The about $600,000 for that came out of the county's contingency fund.

And usually, those along-the-way expenses come up farther along than just two months after passing the budget. That's just one reason that the $25,000 funding request from a community-based organization on Thursday seemed unusual.

County commissioners last night gave Olympian Caroline Lind a hearty pat on the back with a proclamation before the meeting.

"May this gift be used to hold down all the letters of congratulations," said Commissioner John Parks, handing Lind what Scoop thinks was a fancy paperweight from Guilford County.

The commissioners did their congratulaton thing for Lind's gold medal from the Beijing Olympics, and told her that she set a fine example for kids, especially as they return to school this year.

And the county can claim a couple Olympians for the kids to look up to.

"We’ve been spoiled in Guilford County with Joey Cheek and Caroline Lind," Chairman Kirk Perkins said about our gold medal winning speed skater and rower.

Lind was all smiles on Thursday as she received her framed copy of the county's proclamation, along with her paperweight. You can even hear her smile though this short audio clip.

Parks, who knows Lind's family, said that earlier he asked her father, Fred, about the pressure her parents faced at the games.

It's nothing compared to the city swim meet, he told Parks.

What : Guilford County commissioners meeting
When : Thursday 5:30 p.m.
Where : Old County Courthouse, 301 W. Market St., Greensboro
On TV: Cable channel 13 in Greensboro and other areas of Guilford County outside High Point; cable channel 8 in High Point.

What’s going on? In the only meeting commissioners have this month, the board will handle housekeeping-type business by choosing whether to accept a grant for hand-held translators for the sheriff’s office, allowing an architect to design the new social services building for High Point, approving money for a new mobile command center for the Guilford County Sheriff’s Office and deciding whether to match Forsyth County’s funding level to give $400,000 to Triad Park, among other issues.
There could be some discussion on the construction method the board chose to build the $115 million county jail, which occurred during a work session in which Democrats outnumbered Republicans that were present by a margin of 6 to 1. Though it’s an 11-member board, not all members show up at work sessions.

Want to be heard? Speakers can address the board on nonagenda items regarding county business for three minutes at the start of the meeting. A sign up sheet will be available near the lectern. Full agenda and live video.
What’s next? The board is likely to only have one more meeting in September, and will also set a work session date.

Have any of you been stuck with late fees after paying your taxes to Guilford County this year? We're looking at the issue in the next few days and would like to hear your war stories (if you have them).

This question pertains mostly to just the most recent county tax bills, but if you have any other concerns, drop me an email.

Apparently, the recently censured Guilford County Substance Abuse Treatment Center has had some successes, according to Chosen Fast.

For those who want to see it, here's the full audit report for the center, penalized with $1,500 in fines by the state for numerous errors.

A little background: The place only recently opened after years of work to get a long-term rehab center for the county's indigent addicts. We did a story back in June after the ribbon-cutting ceremony.

We receive Google alerts on all the Guilford County Commissioners, which means that if something turns up on the web with the name of someone from this bunch, then it appears in the ol' e-mail inbox.

Today, it was Commissioner Bruce Davis' blog that appeared. Blog? We knew he had a MySpace account, on which he said would post updates on his election stops and other information.

That sound of crickets chirping might be from Davis' old blog fired up in 2005 ... and that's about it.

Obviously, we here at Scoop think that blogs are great. They're far from the end-all and be-all of communication (there is a lot of fuzz out there, we know). But a well-maintained blog can be like Internet gold. Or, at the very least, interesting.

We at Scoop know it's tough to keep up with dates. And it must be especially tough on a politician, with all those meetings, functions, hands to shake and ground to break.

Friday's update from the County Manager David McNeill referred to the schedule of meetings for 2008.

This seems to be in reference to a mix-up that Commissioner Carolyn Coleman had with the August commissioners meeting schedule. Typically, the commissioners meet on the first and third Thursdays of each month. Though July and August had only one meeting scheduled in each month -it's kind of a summer break-type thing for the staff and board.

That yearlong calendar of meetings was set in January, and has remained mostly unchanged.

In last week's work session, Coleman asked why nobody told her that there wouldn't be any meeting in early August. Apparently, she showed up on the first Thursday expecting the main event.

The schedule, McNeill noted, was set in January. And there's the calendar that goes out each week in the manager's update (This one's from Aug.1. Scroll down to page 3).

After deciding on how to go with building the $115 million jail in Tuesday's work session (read the sidebar to the story), Commissioner Billy Yow asked how much the two Raleigh attorneys were billing to help with the policy.

They were the experts in the construction manager at-risk method that the county appears ready to use for building the jail. For their services, they were handsomely paid: Bill Gammon charged $350/hr; Robert Meynardie bills $340/hr.

"I would like to remind you that they’re on the clock," Commissioner Paul Gibson said upon hearing that.

After the meeting 'Scoop grabbed one of the attorneys to ask a few details about the building method. And to see how we could pull down $350 an hour oursleves.

But we couldn't get them for long enough to get that big-money question answered.

"Just invoice the News & Record for this interview," joked County Attorney Sharron Kurtz. Of course, Guilford County is picking up the cost of all actions by both attorneys.

Hey, we pay taxes here, too. So the interview ended shortly after. And we got all the info we needed.

A huge number or respondents to the Mad Libs story that our talented colleague Robert Lopez wrote listed Guilford County Commissioner Billy Yow as the local politician choice.

Who knows why.

Scoop isn't in the business of speaking on behalf of someone, especially the elected, but it's a safe bet that few politicians would have a problem with the title of Grand Poo-Bah.

Heck, we wouldn't mind the title for ourselves, even if it meant we had to become a little more genteel. But don't expect a Scoopster to give up beer in a can.

We have a copy of the 2008-09 Guilford County budget, line item by line item, in this handy dandy Excel file. (Warning: it's a big file and may take a bit to download.)

For county geeks, it's kind of like the Rosetta Stone that explains what money goes where.

But first, you have to know a little bit about how to navigate pivot tables in Excel. When Michael Halford, the county's budget director gave a little walk-thru to Scoop on navigating the budget, he said pivot tables were "like a cube that you can turn around and look at in different ways."

It's also a handy tool for ranking your selections for your fantasy football draft, if you're into that.

As for using them, here's a primer on pivot tables.

But if you just want to see where the government spent more money in 2008-09, you can open the file, click on "Base/Expansion", drag it down to the right of the "Dept" column. On the "Base/Expansion" column, click on the little arrow that points down, and check Expansion. Then grab "Division/AU" from above and drag that to the right of "Base/Expansion". It should look like this:

Dragging and so on, you can slice it any number of ways. Have fun.

Cross-posted from Decision 2008.

We have loaded audio for the District 4 races for Guilford County Commissioners on our pages for election coverage.

Check out District 4 Democratic commissioners candidate and current board chairman Kirk Perkins and his statements on sales tax, building schools, connecting with voters and more.

And his Republican challenger, Eddie Souther, spoke about the failed sales tax vote, building schools, his tax philosophy and more.

We'll be adding to this page for all races throughout the election, so be sure to drop in periodically for updates.

Tax Director Francis Kinlaw said that mailing tax payments to Charlotte, where Wachovia handles the money and deposits for the county, is a quicker and cheaper way of handling the money due to Guilford County each year.

Here's the fact sheet that he sent out explaining the decision.

Some commissioners, including Linda Shaw, said they wished they had seen the information before the decision was made to make the switch. But the switch was mentioned in a county manager's update, a weekly newsletter that David McNeill sends out each week.

That was a few lines, back in March, based on a contract with Wachovia from before.

Are you OK with it? Have any folks out there had trouble with the switch?

Traid Watch is watching your commissioners. Check it out.

Two recently-released reports chock-full of stats are now online for the good folks of Guilford County to peruse.

The 2006-07 Citizen Performance Report shows survey info from a group of regular citizens (and 87 percent of respondents feel that life is good here!), along with figures such as child support payment levels, incentives offered to businesses and crime rates/public safety.

Then there's the Service Efforts & Accomplishments Report. It's a dense 105-page document that, in eight chapters, covers embracing diversity, creating a more prosperous community, ensuring public safety and others. We'll get to that right after we polish off that pot of coffee.

Really. That's kind of our thing.

Going back to the citizen report, that will be the subject of several upcoming forums, where you could win a $50 gas card for attending and giving your feedback. We know that government meeting stuff can be dry. But a gas card?

Which, if you live within five miles of the meeting locations, and walk to the forum, may well be worth it.

The forums will be held at 7 p.m. at the following dates and locations. Call 641-3242 for information:

High Point
Aug. 5, Macedonia Family Resource Center, 401 Lake Ave.

Oak Ridge
Aug. 6, Oak Ridge Town Hall, 8315 Linville Road

Greensboro
Aug. 12, Greensboro Public Library, 219 North Church St.

Aug. 13 Guilford County Center barn kitchen 3309 Burlington Road

Over their past few meetings, Guilford County Commissioners have looked at whether the sheriff’s office should get a light plane.

What would have been an administrative decision has turned into hours of conversation.
The Department of Justice would buy the plane, and the money from sheriff’s office confiscations would pay for the aircraft’s operation. Alamance, Davidson, Randolph and Rockingham counties would all use the plane to do stuff such as search for missing people and look for marijuana fields.

Commissioners Melvin “Skip” Alston and Bruce Davis were concerned with the $1 million insurance policy on the aircraft. They thought it was too small, and spent about an hour Thursday on that and other concerns.
“If this crashed, and it killed two to three people,” Alston said, “there’s a possibility for us to be held liable.”

If the sheriff’s office crashed a car and killed some people, the county could be held liable too, Commissioner Linda Shaw noted.

So the wonks here at ‘Scoop checked into some accident rates.

In the last 10 years there’s been one recorded crash with the plane, a light two-seater called a Savannah VG. Both the passengers survived, said Dick Knapinski, spokesman for the Experimental Aircraft Association.
Nationwide, 50 law enforcement officers died in traffic-related accidents in 2007, according to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.

A free plane from the feds with a good safety record, paid for by money taken from bad guys?

Sounds like a deal.

Not to Alston.

“This is a not a tool, it’s a toy for the sheriff’s department to use,” he said.

The vote passed 8-3, with Alston, Davis and Carolyn Coleman voting no.

GREENSBORO - Guilford County Commissioners approved $952,500 in incentives tonight for FedEx Ground to locate a southeastern United States shipping hub in Kernersville.
The company said that it would settle on a location within two months. Guilford County is in competition with locations in Tennessee and South Carolina for the hub.
Commissioners Steve Arnold and Billy Yow voted against the incentives in a 9-2 vote.
The incentives would be paid over the first three years that the company pays property taxes. Over that time the county would receive a property tax revenue gain of $585,934. The incentives are only paid to the company after meeting certain hiring and investment requirements.
The project, if located in Kernersville, would be the first in Triad Business Park. FedEx said it would expect to add 259 new jobs by 2014, which breaks down into 109 full-time jobs paying an average of $40,584 a year, and 150 part-time jobs paying an average of $14,878 annually.
Though the address for the potential project belongs to Kernersville, the land for the area is in Guilford County.

Get more on this story in Friday's News & Record.

Hey folks!

When the Guilford County Commissioners make their decision on the FedEx incentives tonight, we'll post an update here on the website.

Or, you can watch the meeting live on the 'web or on cable channel 13.

Earlier today, Guilford County Commissioners Chairman Kirk Perkins gave us a little insight into his thinking on almost $1 million in incentives that FedEx Ground is seeking Thursday.

"It's about putting out the welcome mat," he said, referring to incentives. Though he wasn't committing to any yes votes on the money, he said that while a tax rebate might be the issue (a company doesn't see a dime until they meet hiring and investment minimums, then pay their taxes), the show of support from a local government may be the tipping point for getting a business here.

"They want to be welcomed and embraced," Perkins said.

If you live in Guilford County Districts 1 or 6, then you may wonder where your commissioner has been for the past few days. They're here, in Kansas City, Mo.

So are At Large Commissioners Paul Gibson and John Parks, and County Manager David McNeill.

We know they hit the National Association of Counties conference from a note in McNeill's weekly update, a rundown of odds and ends in county government that the manager logs.

In today's paper, we're doing an overview on what plans Guilford County commissioners are making to build the $115 million jail, which is the most expensive single project that the county has undertaken.

On Tuesday, the jail construction committee voted 3-1 to recommend that the county use a construction manager at-risk method to build the jail. Commissioner Steve Arnold voted against it because he was happy with the plan they already had.

In short, the recommendation is to hire contracting companty that will not build the jail themsleves, but use its contacts and expertise to pick and coordinate subcontractors who will build the jail. In many cases, if the constriction manager at-risk can use that flexibility to choose better contractors rather than the lowest bidder.

In the old way, the county just goes with the lowest bidder.

So here's some of what didn't make it into the paper:

Kirk Perkins said today that he visited the animal shelter in Forsyth County, a new facility that he's been trying to stop by since it opened.

Perkins, Chairman of the Guilford County Board of Commissioners, is also a board member on the Guilford County SPCA.

While at the Forsyth shelter, Perkins looked for some ideas.

"We need to look at building a new shelter in Guilford County," he said.

Problems have been a part of Guilford County's animal shelter, it seems, for decades. Overcrowding, disease spread and adoption questions have all come up along with other issues over time. (Cached link here)

And it's rabies season now, Perkins mentioned. That's likely to bring the shelter to the front of people's minds as more calls for animal control go out to deal with rabies cases.

"I think it is going to be a topic of discussion and sometime later this year," Perkins said of building a facility. "There are some people who want to make a presentation about a new, modernized animal shelter."

At least one person appears to have been working on some type of shelter design, which has a link to the Guilford County Animal Shelter and features photos and drawings of some shelter designs.

Do you believe it's time to begin talking about a new animal shelter? Can Guilford County afford it?

The county's director of public health, Merle Green, has compiled a list of staff suggestions for spots around town that offer healthy lunches.

She sent it along to us, and it lists places and menu items for food that's not just a burger and fries.

It's no comprehensive list, so if you have a suggestion for a healthy lunch, feel free to add it in the comments section.

A study from the state association of county commissioners shows that there were only 25 counties that increased property tax rates for 2008-09.

Of course, Guilford County was one of those.

When reading the numbers, multiply the figures by 100 to get the property tax rate in cents per $100. For example, Wake county's property tax rate increased by 2.5 cents in a year that also included a property revaluation. Mecklenburg County did not increase its property tax rate.

And here's Guilford County's take
on how the budget stacked up for 2008-09.

How do you feel about how Guilford stacks up with the rest of the state?

Before the budget talks began last night, the Guilford County commissioners took a short recess.

Usually the door to the meeting room and the commissioners' break room stays open during recess, but during Thursday's break, it was closed.

In North Carolina, there's a law that says if a majority of members from an elected body meet together, then it's a public meeting. If they meet together in that way and keep the door shut, then they must cite one of a few specific reasons such as a personnel matter or a business expansion, which usually pertains to incentives for companies like FedEx, RF Micro and such.

During Thursday's recess I counted four commissioners in the regular meeting room, which gave a good reason to suspect that at least six (a majority) were elsewhere. I guessed that they might be behind that closed door and asked to be let in. Commissioner Bruce Davis, who was not in the break room, said I didn't have the right to enter.

He told me that during a recess, commissioners could meet in any way they wanted.

So I grabbed County Attorney Sharron Kurtz to settle the matter. She said that if there were six commissioners there, that the group is open to the public.

We walked over to the break room, opened the door, and sure enough, there were six commissioners inside. Kurtz put a doorstop in front of the door, I popped in, said "Hi," and walked away.

Most of the time, the commissioners in that break room are just cutting up and chatting with one-another. And usually the door remains open. But in the moments leading up to passing the county's budget - arguably the biggest decision that commissioners make in a year - there's good reason to expect openness from elected officials. Particularly during a quiet process leading up to passing the budget.

FYI, here's a little primer on open meetings law in North Carolina from North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper. Pay attention to question nine in particular. For you wonks, here's the law.

All the democrats on the Guilford County Board of Directors voted in favor of a budget and a property tax rate increase in tonight's council meeting.
Commissioners passed their $287 million budget for 2008-09 with a 7-4 vote that swung entirely on Democratic commissioners Thursday. Republican Commissioners Steve Arnold, Linda Shaw, Billy Yow and Mike Winstead voted against the budget.
The budget includes a property tax rate increase of 4.6 cents per $100 valuation, which means that the owner of a $200,000 home would pay $92 more in county property taxes on the next property tax bill.
New expenses in the budget include a $10 million funding increase to Guilford County Schools, $250,000 for a health clinic in Southeast Greensboro, $100,000 to the Greensboro arts council and $75,000 for the high point arts council, along with $25,000 for the North Carolina Shakespeare Festival and $50,000 to the African American Atelier museum.

In reporting this story yesterday, Amanda Martin, General Counsel to the North Carolina Press Association gave me this quote from Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren E. Burger:

People in an open society do not demand infallibility from their institutions, but it is difficult to accept what they are prohibited from observing.

Some commissioners want the budget-making process to be more open. Some said they are happy with the way it is, and that there's nothing to worry about because it all comes out in public meetings anyway.

But it's your tax dollars. What do you want to hear about the process? Are you satisfied with the two budget meetings and the public hearing that the Board of Commissioners have held for the budget this year?

Guilford County Commissioner Linda Shaw was granted, for the second time in her life, an award that most North Carolina residents are lucky to receive just once in a lifetime.

Shaw received the honor of The Order of the Long Leaf Pine during the North Carolina Republican convention earlier this month when Rep. David Lewis presented the award to Shaw on behalf of Gov. Mike Easley.

Shaw's husband, Bob Shaw sent us the head's-up via email over the weekend, and said:

Linda may be the only person in the state who has received two Orders of the Long Leaf Pine by two Governors, one a Republican and one a Democrat. Gov. Jim Martin presented one to her over twenty years ago.

(hyperlink added)

Some Guilford commissioners are already saying that the "Gang of Six" might pass the 2008-09 budget.

They are: Democrats Kay Cashion, Paul Gibson, John Parks and Kirk Perkins, along with Republicans Billy Yow and Mike Winstead.

But who passes the $587 million budget is as important as why they pass the budget. And we're catching up with a few commissioners this week.

Kay Cashion wants money for schools and nonprofits, Melvin "Skip" Alston thinks his vote won't matter, Steve Arnold is let down by how this year's budget process has been handled, Paul Gibson said that the bond debt is built-in expense and Carolyn Coleman is interested in getting funding for a health clinic in southeast Greensboro, the arts and a few other things.

In the current budget County Manager David McNeill planned to save $750,000 in salary expense through employee attrition and hiring freezes. For 2008-09, his reccomended budget projects saving $1.9 million through the same means.

McNeill's budget has a 5.5-cent property tax rate increase, though several commissioners hope to keep that hike under 5 cents per $100 valuation. Most commissioners seem to believe that a property tax rate hike is inevitable since Guilford County voters passed a bunch of bonds in May.

In fact, McNeill's budget broke out that figure - 3.43 cents per $100 valuation.

This week, Perkins began meeting and speaking with each commissioner to achieve a consensus on the budget.

What some commissioners are saying:

If you look up Guilford County's recently-named interim planning director, Nancy Roy, you might find a woman with two
names.

Roy goes by "Nancy Fiorillo" in Moore County and everywhere else.

Why the distinction?

"So I don't want to have to spell my name a million times a day," she said.

There is an obvious difference between the two. "Fiorillo" could play more tricks on the ear than "Roy". Roy is the name she carried through much of her professional career. Fiorillo is a name she picked up through marriage.

Either way, 'Scoop welcomes both Nancy Roy and Nancy Fiorillo to the county. And we thank her for picking a name that's easy to spell.

As an aside, Roy is looking for places in Greensboro while she steers the planning ship.

"If you know anybody who has a short term rental, let me know," she said. We hear she's looking around Fisher Park.

Arts and schools supporters are expected to show up to tomorrow's public hearing on the 2008-09 Guilford County budget.

But Commissioner Melvin "Skip" Alston seemed to believe that the public hearing is an irrelevant affair.

"It's just basically a dog and pony show," he said Monday. "The school board will have their people come out and support the school board's budget, and the arts people will ask for their funding."

He said that local arts groups, which were unfunded in the current budget, may have the wrong idea for 2008-09 funding.

"I think they were misled that they would be put in the budget as a line item," Alston said.

And other scuttlebutt gives the impression that the Board of Commissioners might look to give something extra to other departments instead of schools.

Namely, EMS, public health and the sheriff's office.

Commissioner Linda Shaw said that some attention might be spent on those other departments this year.

"With the sheriff and DSS, they’ve put everything on the back burner," she said about funding for those departments in recent budgets, "and I don’t see how in the world we’re going to be able to give the schools what they want."

The school board asked for $15.8 million. Some commissioners have said that schools will only see $8 million.

"I do not agree with the level of funding for the schools," Shaw said. County Manager David McNeill recommended $12.5 million for schools in his budget.

Meanwhile, Chairman Kirk Perkins is talking with commissioners individually about the budget, he said earlier this week.

"What a chairman does right now, he’s looking for common ground and I’ve got to find enough common ground," he said. It takes the support of at least six commissioners to pass the budget.

"There are probably three votes each for four different budgets, give or take," Perkins said Monday.

He wouldn't go into what budgets are being discussed, or which commissioners support them.

"I'm not trying to sound coy, I’m still looking at options," Perkins said.

Perkins' statement was echoed by Commissioner John Parks, who was noncommittal on what he supports. Parks did say all the departments have needs, mentioning specifically the proposed health clinic for southeast Greensboro, deputies for the sheriff's office and increased needs at the social services department.

"My mind’s not made up on anything at this point," he said, "we’ll see how it all unfolds."

Republican Linda Shaw is coming to the end of her term as Republican National Committeewoman from North Carolina, a post she has held since 1992. Shaw has decided not to run for another four years, so she'll step down as one of the country's top Republican honchos after this summer's National Republican Convention.

That does not mean, however, that she's ready to give up her other gig.

Shaw, 68, is a county commissioner with two years left on her term and plans to run for re-election in 2010.

Still, as news filtered out she had decided to step down from her national post, inquiries had come about whether she was ready to retire from her county seat.

"I love being a county commissioner," Shaw said. "And I do plan to run for one more term, maybe two."

Shaw said she'll attend her last RNC meeting this summer but does not plan to attend the convention where Republicans will officially make Sen. John McCain their nominee.

More than 300 people are expected at a memorial service for Greg Niles tomorrow.

If that's not a testament to how much a guy is well known, loved and respected, I don't know what is.

Niles died suddenly on Saturday of an aneurism while enjoying an afternoon at the pool. News of his untimely passing sent ripples through Guilford County. He would have turned 45 years old this month.

Guilford County's public hearing on the budget is 5:30 p.m. Thursday during the commissioners meeting (Agenda here
). Speakers have two minutes apeice to make their cases for cutting or adding stuff to the 2008-09 budget.

So far, the commissioners haven't had much to say publicly on what they want to budget to look like.

But what do you want? Better education? Less crime? Better parks? Tighter bureaucracy?

Interestingly, those are things that folks campaign on when trying to get elected. Now's the time to see how the people you voted in office line up with their promises.

So come up with a sharp two minutes on what you want and show up at the meeting Thursday.

Commissioner Melvin "Skip" Alston was seen in Charlotte earlier this week following a police suspect shooting as a part of his role as a local leader in the National Action Network.

The group is a national civil rights advocacy association headed by the sometimes-controversial Rev. Al Sharpton.

Alston said that his own appearance in Charlotte was "just playing softball now," as he started to investigate the shooting death of a 21-year-old man that some beleive was questionable.

"We'll being in the big bat later," he said, referring to the good reverend.

Alston said that he talks to Sharpton weekly, and had earlier Thursday morning. Sharpton could be in Charlotte next week, he said.

"I have a call into the Charlotte police chief, but I haven't heard back yet," Alston said.

During Thursday's budget workshop, Commissioner Bruce Davis waded into finding if one goal of magnet schools in Guilford County had succeeded: to balance race levels in schools.

Instead, he dove in.

"Is the magnet system giving the success that you thought it would?" he asked Alan Duncan, chairman of the school board, "To bring white folks back to inner-city schools?"

Race is often a touchy subject among the elected officials in Guilford County. Other times, it becomes a joke.

After his first statement, Davis rephrased his thoughts on magnet schools.

"They were designed to balance the socio-economic environment in the schools," he said.

To that, Duncan said, "they were meant to balance race." And he added that they would be reviewed soon.

Laughter settled among the commissioners as Linda Shaw chimed in.

"That was a racial remark," she said, smiling, while Melvin "Skip" Alston giggled beside her and several other commissioners chuckled along.

Tomorrow is the first budget workshop for the 2008-09 Guilford County budget, and the commissioners are largely mum on what they plan to add or cut.

Yet all the commissioners have been on the board long enough to have some familiarity with how the budget process works. However, many board members say they want updates from departments before they go out and start makin' sausage.

Tomorrow they'll hear from Guilford County Schools, GTCC, emergency services and the Department of Social Services.

Schools already received a cut in this year's $15.8 million funding request. The budget from County Manager David McNeill includes added positions for DSS areas in daycare, foster care and mental health, but those are funded with state and federal money.

Today we talked to Republican Linda Shaw to see what she's got in mind heading into tomorrows Guilford County 2008-09 budget workshop. She said that the bonds that just passed will have an impact on the process.

Mostly that means the budget will likely have a built-in property tax rate increase, possibly up to 3.7 cents per $100 valuation.

Beyond that, Shaw said, she expects a good number of cuts to happen across the budget. Though Shaw wouldn't say where, because she needs to hear from the separate departments first.

Meanwhile, other commissioners plan to lobby for funds in other areas. Democrats Melvin "Skip" Alston and Carolyn Coleman have both hinted to Scoop their plans to seek funds for the nonprofits. But neither would say what ones.

Is that to say that commissioners are saving the additions and subtractions for the camera?

Speaking of the camera, Shaw said she talked to fellow Republican Billy Yow after we ran this last weekend about a short exchange at the end of the last Board of Commissioners meeting. Yow called it a joke, others called it racist.

Shaw said she knew that Yow was kidding, and that's not too different from what other commissioners do.

"He was joking, and everyone does it," Shaw said, adding that other commissioners cut up in the bathrooms and backrooms of the county halls.

And she backs the one-cent sales tax that Yow wants to put on the November ballot for schools.

"This one cent was all going to the schools," she said, "and if people know that, then the burden is going to be shared equally. Not just by property owners."

Shaw said she contacted Rep. Laura Wiley to aske for her support on the sales tax, which received a tepid reaction from the local delegation on the General Assembly last week.

And next week, Shaw plans to visit the local legislators in Raleigh to pitch the tax.

"All I’m asking is to give people the right to vote on the ballot," Shaw said, adding that the campaign for a penny sales tax would be much more intense than what ran for the quarter-cent tax, which failed miserably on in the primary vote on May 6.

Scoop has been writing about the back and forth between the county commissioner and the Guilford County legislative delegation over the sales tax.

Quick summary: The commissioners put a bunch of bonds on the May ballot that would have been paid back with a new 1/4 cent sales tax. That sales tax failed by a wide margin. So the commissioners asked the legislature to let them hold a referendum on a 1 penny sales tax, which is four times as much for those of your reaching for a pencil. The legislators have said "no" - and to be honest, a lot of them sort of giggled when they wondered out loud about the logic of going back to the voters in such a short time. At any rate, the commissioners are now blaming the legislature for the tax hikes that will come as a result of the bonds the commissioners put on the ballot.

Clear as mud? Good.

Well, former Guilford County Republican Party Chairman Marcus Kindley is apparently siding with the commissioners and sent members of the legislative delegation a nasty-gram recently. Kindley gave up his spot as county chairman to run for state chairman, a race he lost. (He also gave up his blog, the address for which was taken over by some non-family friendly folks. It's not safe for work, or really, anywhere.)

Here's Kindley's epistle to the legislative delegation, as provided by Rep. John Blust:

An Open Letter to the Guilford County Legislative Delegation

As a Guilford County taxpayer, Property Owner and Business Owner with over 60 associated persons; I wanted to inform you that I am considering organizing a 527 in order to inform the voters of Guilford County about our current tax situation.

In essence our delegation to the State of North Carolina has condemned those individuals in Guilford County who have worked hard, saved money, created jobs by building their businesses and purchased both office spaces and homes to rising property taxes from now as far as the eye can see! It is through their tax dollars that you have the ability to sit in a building in Raleigh, drive there on State and Federal Roads and FAIL the people you represent.

Property owners are asked to bear the burden of the bond issues passed in Guilford mainly for Schools. As a Municipal Bond Principal, licensed by the MSRB(Municipal Securities Rulemaking Board) the SEC and FINRA (Financial Industry Regulatory Agency formerly the NASD) I DO understand accrual of interest, sinking funds, and paying back the funds borrowed. I also understand that we will be paying back much more than we have issued in bonds. To my knowledge none of you hold such a designation ( I have held mine for 21 years) and being elected to office does not make one intelligent in these various areas.

By not allowing a VOTE ( the very principal of American Democracy) on a 1 cent sales tax on the ballot in November you have CONDEMNED all those voters who work hard, play by the rules to be overwhelmed with an undue part of the burden for a future tax collections to repay the bonds you may have championed. ( We will research this)

You are being unfair. To let those who spend their money in Guilford County share in the funds collected to repay these bonds is only fair. And that will be the theme of our 527 advertisements.

As a business owner, former 3 term Chairman of the Guilford County Republican Party, and civic leader I know how to use PR to make our case.

We’ll ask children if they think it is fair for some to pay while others don’t, We’ll ask older citizens if they think it is fair for them to bear ALL of the cost while they live on Social Security. This will be a campaign rarely seen in Guilford County. Actually I should thank you for providing such a clear cut issue of UNFAIRNESS and UN-AMERICAN representation by our elected officials. It may be the beginning of the Guilford County Voter taking a closer look at how our Government works for them and wake them up to how much representation is lacking in Raleigh.


Sincerely,
Marcus Kindley
CEO
Intercarolina Financial Services
( A Full Service Brokerage Firm)

Guilford County Manager David McNeill said last week that fuel costs to the county are going up by $900,000 over last year.

It's happening everywhere, too. Gas goes up, local government must do something.

Sheriff BJ Barnes told his deputies to turn off their cruisers to save on gas.

While we can't just tell county employees to not drive places, there are options to getting around: carpooling, walking where you can and making combination trips to places.

Everybody is stretching the dollar as much as possible, it seems. But while Greensboro and High Point were able to avoid property tax rate increases, one appears inevitable for Guilford County. (Though both cites are raising fees for utilities.)

Commissioners agree that the recently-passed bonds are definitely going to have an impact on property tax rates. But beyond that, the budget still works like it does every year. Some expenses will increase, and some things must be cut. Thursday is the first work session for the 2008-09 budget.

Over the weekend I received several email messages and saw this story appear on a few blogs, and was the subject of a few emails I received.

In short, last week Commissioner Billy Yow made a comment during the later part of a Guilford County commissioners meeting that he later said was part of a running joke on the board.

Carolyn Coleman immediately said during the meeting that Yow's comment was racist.

Meanwhile, these exchanges were happening while Chairman Kirk Perkins was in the middle of his comments from the board.

We followed the next day with a piece that looked at the issue: joke or not.

And a folks from as far away as Florida emailed me over the weekend. One suggested with an "LOL!" that an outside mentor (a particular reverend that's been connected to Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama) might be good for the board.

Another emailer used the term "nitwits" for the board members while pointing out that they are the ones charged with the duty of spending hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money. That person also had some choice words for particular commissioners.

One emailed to suggest putting this issue up to a blog, open for comments. So here it is.

What's your take on Yow's comment? How about the other commissioners' reactions? Do believe that this is important while the budget planning season gets into full swing? Why?

The Guilford County delegation to the General Assembly will see a resolution in favor of a one-cent sales tax after all.

Even though they said earlier this week that it didn't stand a chance.

And while a few commissioners said themselves that the resolution would die, there was enough support to get it through.

"I’m well aware that the citizens that voted did not approve the quarter cent sales tax," said Kay Cashion, vice-chairwoman of the Board of Commissioners, "and I heard that many didn’t understand what the sales tax was about."

This time, Commissioner Billy Yow and the board wants to push a full penny sales tax in the short legislative session of the General Assembly. It would pay for school construction debt and help knock back the property tax rate.

It's likely not to pass, but Commissioner Melvin "Skip" Alston and Carolyn Coleman took the chance to stump before giving their nay votes.

"What part of 'no' don't you understand," Alston said to Yow, "The 'N' or the 'O'?"

Yow and others said that the voters may need a better explanation of what the tax would do. And if that penny sales tax doesn't get past the General Assembly, Guilford County residents can expect to see the quarter-cent tax again on the ballot in November, several commissioners said.

The proposed 2008-09 budget for Guilford County is available to view online here.

The next meeting on the budget is scheduled for May 29, with another session on June 2 and a public hearing on June 5. Here's the story we did on it from Thursday's commissioners meeting.

In a half-hour we'll sit in on a meeting with County Manager David McNeill and Michael Halford, Guilford County's budget management director.

We're going to go over the $550 million-ish 2008-09 budget that the Board of Commissioners will see for the first time tonight.

There are a few things that have been brought up already about what will be funded and what might not, and topping the lists for many commissioners is school funding, money for nonprofits and keeping taxes low.

What makes this budget year a little different is the bonds that voters just passed on May 6, which is expected to have an immediate impact on the property tax rate. That means an inevitable tax rate increase is on the way - about $185 more for the owner of a $200,000 home.

One commissioner already had a pitch for a way to mitigate the hit from those bonds on property owners through a sales tax. That idea was swatted down by the county's delegation on the General Assembly, however.

But what if you were making the county's half-billion budget for next year? What would get funded? What would you cut? Where would you find the money for projects?

And as we report on the budget process, what do you want to see us cover?

Also, I plan to get an update online as soon as I can after the 4:30 p.m. meeting.

The Guilford County legislative delegation met today. Even if the commissioners pass a resolution asking for the ability to put a one-cent sales tax on the November ballot, the delegation will not file such a bill.

All six members who were around to discuss the sales tax about 25 minutes ago expressed some level of skepticism. Rep. Maggie Jeffus was trying to see if she had approval to go forward and was explaining the procedure for getting the bill filed.

Rep. Pricey Harrison was the first person to speak up against it.

"I do not approve so I'll save you the time," Harrison said. "I'm just fundamentally opposed to these regressive taxes."

Sales taxes are said to be regressive because they take a higher percentage of income from poor families than they do from the wealth.

Rep. Earl Jones and Katie Dorsett also said they didn't understand why the commissioners would come back for such a tax referendum only weeks after one for a 1/4 cent failed.

Because this is the legislative short session - a kind of over-time period meant to tweak the budget and take care of urgent business - local bills that do not have the support of their entire legislative delegation are not eligible for consideration.

Today we ran a story about the proposed penny sales tax from Billy Yow.

There are still a few hurdles to jump, not the least of which is getting past the Guilford County commissioners tomorrow night.

And while Yow said he believes that he's got enough votes to get the proposal through the board, one commissioner has spoken against it, with a voicemail left late last night.

Carolyn Coleman said in the message that voters already said they didn't want a sales tax increase when they voted against a quarter-cent sales tax earlier this month, and that she would oppose the proposal Thursday.

Chairman Kirk Perkins is behind the idea, however.

"I’m hearing more and more taxpayers tell me that they favor a sales tax over increasing property taxes," Perkins said. But it's doubtful all the commissioners will support the proposal with the enthusiasm that many had for the quarter-cent tax.

"I'm sure that some commissioners will balk," Perkins said.

Yow, meanwhile, has many reasons for why he thinks the sales tax should be passed.

The resolution he proposes specifies that the sales tax would pay for school construction debt and lower the property tax rate.

Though, it must be said, that the sales tax could be paying for anything. To that, Yow said that if the sales tax makes it to the Nov. 4 ballot, then he's got to make sure that it gets publicized in the right way, unlike the quarter-cent sales tax.

"Nobody was out there for the quarter cent sales tax. It was not slated for any purpose," he said, "it was just slated to be another revenue source, and most folks thought it was just another tax."

On his proposal, Yow said:

"If the legislature lets it go on the ballot, I can assure you that it will be very well-publicized, we have to know what we’re doing and why we’re doing it."

Yow said that a sales tax would spread the expense among many more than just property owners.

"The big thing is that over time when the economy gets bigger and the economy gets better, the sales tax (revenue) will grow. And the folks need to understand that 40 percent comes from outside people and people who are non-residents: people passing through in motels and shopping. If other people are helping pay our bills, that’s what we need to do. And the property owners have got to have some relief."

So earlier this month, about three-quarters of voters in Guilford County rejected a one-quarter-cent sales tax increase.

If you're Guilford County Commissioner Billy Yow, what do you do?

That's right: ask the General Assembly to authorize a referendum on a full penny increase. You'll find that little nugget squirled away at the end of this coming Thursday's commissioners meeting agenda. You can read the proposed resolution here. (PDF)

I got wind of this from Rep. Maggie Jeffus, a Greensboro Democrat who chairs the Guilford County legislative delegation here at the General Assembly. I think she was a bit surprised to see this request show up, but agreed to look into running it.

In an e-mail, Sharron Kurtz, a lawyer for the county, sent Jeffus a copy of the resolution.

"Guilford County Commissioner Billy Yow has requested that I forward to you a proposed resolution that will be presented to the Board for their consideration at their next meeting...The one cent would be committed exclusively for repayment of educational debt," Kurtz wrote.

There are a few problems right off the bat with doing this sort of thing down here. Drafting deadlines for legislation and rules governing what is or is not a "local bill" may be hard to get around.

But the biggie may be the requirement that all 10 members of the county legislative delegation sign off on this thing.

Several members expressed skepticism that they could bring themselves to back such a measure, even if the legislative voodoo can be done.

"I'm going to have to talk to several folks, because the voters just said 'no,'" said Rep. Laura Wiley, a High Point Republican.

Sen. Phil Berger, a Rockingham Republican who represents parts of Guilford County, was similarly skeptical.

"I'd like to see the request before I make too much of a commitment, but I'll tell you I believe the voters of Guilford County have spoken on the issue of whether their taxes ought to be raised," Berger said.

Gerald Witt is reporting out a story for tomorrow's paper, which I'm sure will include some comments from Mr. Yow.

The John Locke Foundation put out a report card (PDF) on transparency in local governments. Greensboro and Guilford County didn't come off looking so hot, although neither did anyone else.

(This is the point where I should insert a caveat about Locke being a conservative think tank that would like to see the size of government at all levels shrink. So they're offering this analysis in the spirit of giving taxpayers the ability to put pressure on local governments to cut spending. Whether or not that's your political or philosophical orientation, the information regarding openness is well taken.)

From a Locke Foundation news release:

RALEIGH – Winston-Salem's city government earns a C grade, when it comes to making budget and spending information available online. That's better than the D-plus assigned to High Point and the D grade earned by Greensboro, according to a new John Locke Foundation Spotlight report.

All three cities fare better than Forsyth and Guilford county governments, which earn grades of D-minus in the new report. Guilford County schools earn a C-minus, while Forsyth's school system earns an F.

Those poor grades are part of a statewide trend documented by the JLF Transparency Report Card 2008, said report co-author Chad Adams, JLF Vice President for Development and director of the Center for Local Innovation. "No North Carolina city or school system in this report earns better than a C grade, and no county earns more than a C-minus."

The report card is designed to spur improvement within state and local governments, Adams said. "This state, home to national banks that update their customers' accounts instantly anywhere around the world, woefully lags in making spending transparent at every level," he said. "North Carolina and its local governments need to do more."

Click here for the full scorecard. And Click here for a bullet point summary. A more globally geared news release is here.

The comment lines are open, just click below.

Six votes will pass Guilford County's 2008-09 budget. There's 11 members on the board, and a simple majority will make the budget go.

Let the lines be drawn.

County Manager David McNeill will present his budget to the Board of Commissioners on May 22. There are no new members on the board, so each will go into next week's meeting with an idea of what they want in the county's $550 million budget. Some said they want funding for community organizations. Others want more money for schools. And some want no new taxes, no matter what.

But what do you want to get funded? Contact your commissioner, or post a comment down here.

Commissioners tell us all the time that voters contact them and say this or that. But we'd also like to hear from you after you talk with your elected representative. What did they say? What do you want? It is your tax money, after all.

Also, in a conversation with Chairman Kirk Perkins today, he said that things going unfunded this year may come back to haunt the county later. So saving now may mean paying more for it later.

Because there's an expected property tax rate increase with the bonds that passed. We've been giving averages out for these bonds lately, but here's how it breaks down for the next couple years: In 2008-09, there will be a property tax rate increase of about $70 for the owner of a $200,000 home. In the following year, 2009-10, that homeowner will have another increase of about $100. Then, in 2010-11, that homeowner will pay an extra $16 on the tax bill.

That number fluctuates because bonds are issued and paid on different timetables and the property tax increases this year and next will go to cover those bonds. And while they are intended to cover the bond payments, what happens when the bonds are paid down? Who ever heard of a local government lowering taxes?

We caught up with Guilford County commissioners this week to see what they think now that the dust has settled on the May 6 votes for $671 million in bonds and the quarter-cent sales tax.

Guilford voters approved all the bonds except for the $20.2 million for parks. And they refused the sales tax.

But few commissioners managed to hold closely to what the voters wanted in their districts.

Below is the list of what commissioners said they wanted before the election, which excludes at-large commissioners John Parks and Paul Gibson:

District 1, Bruce Davis: No to the $412 million school bond and jail bond. Yes to other bonds. Undecided on sales tax.

District 2, Steve Arnold: Yes on Eastern Guilford. No to the other bonds and sales tax.

District 3, Linda Shaw: Yes to bonds and sales tax.

District 4, Kirk Perkins: Yes on bonds and the sales tax.

District 5, Billy Yow: Yes on the jail bond and sales tax. No for the other bonds.

District 6, Kay Cashion: Yes on bonds and the sales tax.

District 7, Mike Winstead: Refused to give his position on the bonds or sales tax.

District 8, Melvin “Skip” Alston: Yes to Eastern Guilford. No to the other bonds and sales tax.

District 9, Carolyn Coleman: Did not comment.

Most of the time, we simply ignore the calls asking for us to investigate the great ketchup famine of 1996 or the relationship of some elected official to Area 57.

This morning was a touch different when a caller asked about who pays for these bonds, particularly the school bonds.

The caller wanted to know what happened to the North Carolina Education Lottery proceeds that were intended to build new schools. Then the caller implied that people who don't own property in Guilford County are probably the folks who voted for the bonds, because renters don't have to pay property tax.

We reported last year that the North Carolina Education Lottery wasn't putting up the revenue that was expected. Here's a handy .pdf showing the breakdown from the 2006-07 ticket sales.
While the lagging lottery isn't the only reason bond supporters used to justify that the schools needed the money, it is one of many factors.

As for the property-owners-only-pay-property-tax argument, it's true only to the extent that the person who owns the land pays the property tax bill. Rest assured, every time rent goes up for a person, a part of that increase also goes to cover higher property taxes.

Update: Here's today's story on the 2007-08 county budget. What do you want your board of commissioners to fund?

After Tuesday, when most bonds in Guilford County received the nod from voters, you can likely count on a couple things happening in the 2008-09 budget.

Some commissioners will likely mention that voters could have made things easier in by passing the quarter-cent sales tax. Property tax may well go up. And there could even be more cuts.

All that comes at a time when food stamp claims are increasing at the Department of Social Services, the Sheriff's Office was required to add 28 deputies at the beginning of the year that will be permanent positions and many of the community groups that were cut in last year's budget want to get back on board.

One Soopster mentioned after tonight's Primary results came in that "the real election begins tomorrow."

Nay. Budget season begins tomorrow.

Now all those things that Guilford commissioners talked about - particularly tax increases - are going to come up.

And the referenda that passed only technically gives the board the clearance to issue the bonds. They don't have to, and they don't have to issue them for the full amount.

Soon we can see what the commissioners think about this upcoming budget season.

A half-hour of recognitions preceded the regular business in Thursday's Guilford County commissioners meeting, and they spanned from naming bridges to hearing bagpipes.

In a somber moment, the board named the Eugene/Elm Street bridge over I-40/85 in honor of L.E. Pace, a state trooper who died while on-duty in 1963.

The High Point Central High School Men of Valor Excelling program was recognized for receiving the President's Volunteer Service Award.

And then there were bagpipes. Redhead Commissioner Linda Shaw (she's a Republican, too)read the proclamation recognizing April as national Scots, Scots-Irish Heritage Month. Bagpiper David Thomas serenaded the board. (The bagpipe starts at 37 minutes in the video.)

Also, May is now the month for foster care awareness and mental health month. And The week starting May 4 is arson awareness week.

Guilford County's health department saw its initial request to improve access to healthcare in the 27406 ZIP code reduced by half to $250,000 in preparing the 2008-09 budget, according to Merle Green, director of public health.

That reduction could be a harbinger of more lean times for other county departments as County Manager David McNeill works on his recommended 2008-09 budget. The Board of Commissioners will review the budget in May and approve it in June.

This year's budget season could be especially difficult, considering that voters may approve up to $671 million in bonds, and the board already asked McNeill to make a budget with no property tax rate increase in addition to the one he'll recommend.

Any new bond will likely cause the county's property tax rate to rise.

Along with the county department requests, several community groups traditionally receiving funding were cut from the current 2007-08 budget and hope to get back on the books in 2008-09.

And one more thing could hold sway for some board members. The election itself.

The May 6 primary will settle the bonds decision and three races for commissioner. But two At Large commissioners and the District 4 race will be settled in November, after the budget is approved.

Oh, and everything seems to be getting more expensive.

In all those factors, are there any issues that you hope are covered in our work on the 2008-09 budget? List them in comments, or e-mail me.

Scoop found Guilford County Commissioner Steve Arnold by phone Thursday, who said he might be ready to talk sometime about the bankruptcy proceedings and other things he’s facing lately.

Arnold used words like “politically fatal” to describe how he’s handled talking about the case so far. Which is to say that Arnold hasn’t spoken much on it at all.

When Scoop asked Arnold if he’d be available soon — he does have another court date May 8 — he said that he may get back to us sometime around then.

We're looking forward to the conversation. Arnold said that he's got some factual information that he wants out there, and that our reports were a little off.

"I can point out all kinds of mistakes and various issues that were wrong," he said.

Well, that can happen when we don't get someone's side of the story, or they don't want to talk.

Inside Scoop is always open.

This could become a situation similar to the kid caught chewing gum in class, when the teacher asks if there's enough for everybody.

A few weeks ago, Guilford County Commissioner Carolyn Coleman asked for an estimate on quarterly mileage reimbursements for volunteers on the county's nursing home advisory committee and the adult care committee.

Apparently the committemembers put a bunch of miles on their cars in the duty of running around and checking up on nursing homes and adult care facilities. They don't receive any per-mile reimbursement, and gas isn't getting cheaper, she noted.

County Manager David McNeill gave a cost estimate today: $10,000 a year.

The conversation is expected to continue next week in the county commissioners meeting.

But if those boards receive reimbursements, who else should? Is this an all-or-nothing deal for the other advisory boards and commissions? And where would the money come from?

Those were a few questions that Vice Chairwoman Kay Cashion and others had.

Questions that, McNeill said, only the board can answer.

Of the 60-plus advisory boards and commissions the county uses to run its business, just a few receive money. Planning board members receive $10 per meeting, for example. Here
are the others.

Could this kind of money be spread to all the boards, or is it fair to help those people putting miles on their cars to do the business of making sure our elderly are being treated well? Or is that simply the sacrifice someone makes to be a volunteer?

What if every volunteer was compensated for thier time on a board? What would change? What if nobody was?

We're doing a story on the $671.6 million in Guilford County bonds that people will vote on in the May 6 primary.

So as we report this story, what kinds of things would you like to know about the bonds? Do you wonder if this a good time for bonds, considering the economy? Do you think that the schools, parks, jail and college are needed now - no matter what?

What questions and answers would help you make a better choice on the bonds? E-mail us or post a comment below, and we'll try to get to them along the way.

Three reasonably-sized projects have been approved since February for an intersection near Forest Oaks.

We ran a story today about that and a community group involved on the ground level in the planning process - and how they got a bit of what they wanted out of the deal.

It reminds me of my hometown and how grocery stores soon pooped up on every corner in a bunch of expansion (that seems unending). Where there were farms there are now shopping centers and residential developments.

And it's happened around the Triad, too. Though what hit Raleigh and Charlotte in past years is beginning to show up here.

So development is coming, like it not. If you had a developer buy 60 acres across from your backyard fence, what would you like to see them do with it? How would you make that known?

Billy Yow might have you think that.

Yow, the Republican two-term District 5 Guilford County Commissioner, is using a touch of the boardroom friction he gives District 8 Democratic Commissioner Melvin "Skip" Alston to help introduce his campaign website. A profile photo of Yow in apparent disbelief gazes across the site's banner to a shot of Commissioner Skip Alston, who has a raised eyebrow.

Scoop called Yow today to ask what he's trying to say with the image.

"When you look you see Skip (Alston) sitting over there. And without me, you see, he's a loose cannon," Yow said. Yow added that voters in his district should vote for him at least to keep Alston under control.

So we called Alston to see what he thinks about that.

"I have heated exchanges with all of them," Alston said about the board. "It’s not just Billy that I vent my frustration out with, and I can't say that anything is specifically aimed at Billy (Yow)."

Disagreements between the two have been noted before as the board sparred over budgeting, the jail and other issues. But the Board of Commissioners has 11-members, and most votes are decided by a greater margin than the two votes that Alston and Yow might use to cancel each other out.

The Web site for the Guilford County Sheriff's Office has a county leader asking questions about whether it crosses a line with regards to the upcoming vote on bonds for a new jail.

The site contains a link to another site, asaferguilfordcounty.com, which makes a case for a new jail. It cites a report that concluded additional jail space is necessary, shows photos of "overcrowding" in the current jail and photos, some grisly, of injured officers and inmates, and notes that the state has warned the county it must address jail overcrowding.

Government employees are restricted in what they can and can't do when it comes to bond issues.

When acting as a private citizen, they are free to advocate however they wish. In an official capacity, however, the standard is different.

For Guilford County commissioner Skip Alston, an opponent of the jail bond, Sheriff BJ Barnes crossed the line.

"He's doing it in the name of the Guilford County Sheriff," Alston said. "In my opinion, it is advocating."

Alston's fellow commissioner Billy Yow, who along with Barnes is among the members of the "Jail Bond Committee," said Alston's attack is off base.

"All the "T's" have been crossed and all the "I's" have been dotted," Yow said during a meeting of the board of commissioners.

Barnes couldn't be reached for comment Friday.

Gary Bartlett, the executive director of the N.C. Board of Elections, said elected officials can engage in education and even "issue advocacy" when it comes to bonds. Basically, that means they can talk about the issue, but must stop short of saying "vote for the bonds."

The Web site doesn't appear to state its support for the bond quite so clearly. In fact, much of the information is explicity couched in terms of education. "We at the Guilford County Sheriff's Office would like to assist you in making an informed decision about the up-coming Jail Bond," Barnes stated in a letter on the Web site's front page.

Ultimately, Bartlett said, if someone makes a formal complaint, the board will investigate. If that happens, the fact that the information is linked from the sheriff's office Web site could add another wrinkle.

"It would put it into a gray area," he said.

The $115 million jail bonds will be on the May 6 ballot, along with several hundred million dollars worth of bonds for schools and parks and recreation.

Currently it's up to the Guilford County school board to figure out when and how to build schools, though county commissioners chairman Kirk Perkins is open to the possibility of that changing.

At a regional meeting for the state commissioners association, he heard about what Wake County is considering: taking the responsibility, planning and execution of building schools away from the school board.

"And it hit a bell with me that in Guilford County, (the board of commissioners) could take care of school construction projects," he said. "We could take that from the school board and they could concentrate on educating kids."

In a way, the Board of Commissioners has a say over what the Board of Education can build. The commissioners decide how much county money schools receive each year - which takes about 40 percent of the county's approximately $550 million budget.

The idea is far from fruition in Guilford County. But taking on school construction did intrigue Perkins, he said after the meeting he attended Wednesday in Raleigh for North Carolina Association of County Commissioners.

The NACC represents county boards across the state and advocates on their behalf to the state legislature.

The meeting Perkins attended gives commissioners across the region an idea of what state legislators will be asked to focus on from the counties as the General Assembly goes into another session May 13.

Perkins said that with the presentation on school construction, other topics such as state road funding and Medicaid funding received time.

Here's the full agenda for the Guilford County Commissioners meeting at 1 p.m. Thursday in the Old Guilford County Courthouse.

Why 1 p.m.? So the board can catch the next episode of "My Name is Earl"?

No. The time is pushed to the afternoon so that members can attend the GTCC 50th Anniversary Gala (Black tie optional).

Even with the earlier meeting time, the gala kickoff at 6 p.m. means the board still may need to hustle if they plan to get out in time to get gussied up and head over. Though it would be interesting to see a black tie commissioners meeting.

As for the agenda, Southwest Park stands to get $651,484 for some restrooms and picnic shelters, paid for with previously unused bond money. And the board of elections wants the OK to buy 59 more voting machines to beef up its arsenal for the 2008 election.

Does anything on the agenda pop out at you?

There could be no new taxes for Guilford County taxpayers this year, after county commissioners asked for a 2008-09 budget proposal with no property tax rate increase in a Tuesday work session.

The zero-tax budget may not be what the board adopts this summer, but it is a step toward two goals most politicians agree on: efficient government and no new taxes.

The marching orders for County Manager David McNeill came at the end of a discussion on hiring consultants for a county efficiency study. Along with the zero-tax increase budget, they asked McNeill to form a panel to advise the county on places to streamline the bureaucracy.

McNeill will also submit his recommended budget to the board on May 15, which he does each year.

Early projections from Michael Halford, Guilford County director of budget management, show the county's property tax rate rising this year if the county services stay at the same rate.

In the 2007-08 budget, taxes for the owner of a $200,000 home went up about $60. Based on Halford's first estimate, that homeowner would pay another $79 on the property tax bill in 2008-09.

"If you want a zero-tax increase budget then say, 'This is what you have to cut out, this is what we will eliminate'," Commissioner Skip Alston said to McNeill.

Guilford County Commissioners are holding a work session tomorrow to hear presentations on open space, an efficiency program and a few other things
at 3 p.m. in the Old County Courthouse, 301 West Market St.

How to handle open space has been a question lately for the board. Earlier this year, they turned down plans to purchase an easement on a working farm. One reason for the down vote, some commissioners said, was that the public couldn't access the land.

Then, in their March 6 meeting, the board approved the purchase of open space in two tracts of land. The public could eventually get to those places, though. One tract is located next to two public schools, and another adjoins existing open land the county bought in 2007.

During those discussions, some commissioners have asked whether public money should be used to protect open space and debated on how it should be spent.

The efficiency study is based on a request from the board to County Manager David McNeill. Commissioners asked the staff to make a list of consultants to review county employees and find places where the county could consolidate jobs within departments or combine them with other jurisdictions.

We're working on a bond story to look at the county's current debt load and find some estimate of the extra cost to run and staff all the stuff that $670 million in bonds would need.

Voters will decide on the bond referenda in the May 6 primary.

Working on that story led me Thursday to Michael Halford, director of Guilford County's budget management and evaluation office, to chat about about the upcoming 2008-09 budget process.

Halford's early projection for a 2008-09 budget - with no cuts from this year's budget - requires a property tax rate increase of 3.95 cents per $100 valuation.

In the 2007-08 budget, taxes for the owner of a $200,000 home went up about $60. Based on Halford's first estimate, that homeowner would pay another $79 on the property tax bill in 2008-09.

FYI, the 2008-09 budget planning is still in its early stages, Halford said. Guilford commissioners will approve the budget sometime this summer, after the bond votes.

What do you think of that potential property tax rate increase, though?

Also, are there any things that you want to know about when it comes to the bond referenda?

Bond packages include $412 million for school construction, $45 million for Eastern Guilford High School, a $114 million jail, $79.5 million for GTCC or $20 million for parks and recreation.

For the first time in his short tenure as chairman of the Guilford County Board of Commissioners, Kirk Perkins instituted the 3-minute time limit for commissioners during discussion on agenda items.

The move happened during a heated discussion on the board's voting procedure that had been brought up in previous meetings. In short, the board was tying to pin down whether a commissioner should have his or her vote counted as a "nay" during decisions made when that commissioner isn't in the meeting room.

In recent months, when a commissioner wasn't in the room, their vote was counted as a no - even if they had to leave for an emergency. In many boards the vote of a commissioner who isn't present is counted as neither for nor against the issue.

On Thursday, they changed that, and made a commissioner's absence mean that there wouldn't be any vote recorded for them, which aligns the rules with the board's past practice.

But they had a lengthy debate along the way that resulted in the re-introduction of 3-minute time limits for commissioners to speak on issues at a meeting.

Here's the agenda for Thursday's county commissioners meeting. And if you want to go, here's the skinny:

What: Guilford County commissioners meeting
When: 5:30 p.m. Thursday
Where: Old County Courthouse, 301 W. Market St., Greensboro
On TV: Cable channel 13 in Greensboro and other areas of Guilford County outside High Point; cable channel 8 in High Point.
What’s going on? The board will consider buying about 63 acres valued at $522,000 for a purchase price of $318,800 to use as open space beside another tract the county bought in 2007. Commissioners will get a look at getting another 19 acres of open space land near Northeast middle and high schools for $59,400. The land is valued at $120,000. They may also decide to offer a 1920s-era house for donation to anyone who wants to move it from property on 211 South Edgeworth St., the proposed site for a new county jail. The building would be transferred to Preservation Greensboro Inc., which would help find an owner who could pay to move the house off the site.
Want to be heard? Speakers can address the board on non-agenda items regarding county business for three minutes at the start of the meeting. A sign up sheet will be available near the lectern.
What’s next? The open-space purchases could be accessed by the public shortly afterward if approved. As for the house, it’s not completely free: Any takers must scrounge up about $100,000 to pay the estimated cost to move the building.
Live video

From Decision 2008:

Guilford County released figures this past week on what could happen to the property tax rate if all or some of the bonds passed in the May 6 primary. Check out the county release here.

Keep in mind that those figures consider the property tax rate impact in a world that asks only taxpayers to foot the bill for the bonds. Which could happen. Property taxes pay for more than half of the county's annual budget. Speaking of revenue, your May 6 ballot will include another decision on adding a quarter-cent sales tax that county officials estimate would generate more than $15 million in its first year.

The sales tax can't be designated for a use until (and if) it passes, but the tax could help pay for a good number of projects.

Read it here.

I'm working on a preview for the Thursday meeting that will outline a bit about each bond deal. If you go or watch at home, then you'll have some detail on what each bond package would do.

Nothing about the upcoming public hearing should alter the fate of the bonds, but it is an official chance for the public to speak out ahead of the May 6 referenda.

Anyone planning to come out for the public hearing? Any pet bond projects in mind? Which ones do you think will pass, and why?

Several public hearings, five on the bond referenda, are on next week's Guilford County Commissioners agenda.

Each side will get 20 minutes to argue their point, and three minutes apiece for rebuttal. With breaks, that ends up being roughly an hour for each public hearing.

As Chairman Kirk Perkins went over the main points of the agenda in a Tuesday briefing, he mentioned that the Feb. 21 meeting could go until midnight. He said that as he also looked for other items to table until a March meeting, to streamline the upcoming agenda.

Anyhow, it's not like the public hearings next week will mean much for the fate of the bonds. The referenda are on the May 6 ballot, when people can really decide if they want the big packages or not.

I don't have an e-version of the agenda yet, but you can expect it here once I do.

We know that the Internet is truly a fine repository of extremely useful information.

So if you happen to run across a site that shows Guilford County Commissioner Billy Yow listed as the local commander of the militia, he's got one very colorful thing to say:

"I don't know ... about that," Yow said Friday afternoon.

We don't either, to be honest, other than what we saw online. And you know you can't believe everything you see online.

What: Guilford County commissioners meeting

When: 5:30 p.m. Thursday

Where: Old County Courthouse, 301 W. Market St., Greensboro

Click here for full agenda and live video of the meeting.

What's going on? Bond orders for all the bonds included on May 6 referenda are up for a vote. The order handles the business of how the bond money would come to the county if voters approve referenda for any of the packages that include $412 million for school construction, $45 million for Eastern Guilford High School, a $115 million jail, $79.5 million for GTCC or $20 million for parks and recreation.

Want to be heard? Speakers can address the board on non-agenda items regarding county business for three minutes at the start of the meeting. A signup sheet will be available near the lectern.

What's next? If commissioners approve the bond orders, a public hearing on all the bond referenda would be scheduled for Feb. 21.

On TV: Cable channel 13 in Greensboro and other areas of Guilford County outside High Point; cable channel 8 in High Point.

On Tuesday Guilford County Commissioners met with big-time community advocates from Action Greensboro for a meal, washed it down with local beer, wine and tea, and watched a video together.

Their mission: increase wages in the area, build community pride, attract young professionals and advocate for the community.

The video outlines some of the town's strengths such as the well-attended baseball park, a rise in downtown living, shops and entertainment and the big jobs such as the HondaJet plant.

And then, citing a study that Action Greensboro had done in 2007, the video outlined a few problems: we need higher-paying jobs, we have a high number of manufacturing jobs still and we need greater tax base growth.

"Things are not as rosy as appearances would have us believe," the video's narrator said.

Don't know what to do about that dry rotted spare tire? Looking to finally get rid of the washing machine that's been hanging out on your (or your neighbor's) back porch? Did you know that nail polish remover is considered hazardous waste?

All those questions and more about garbage and recyclables in Guilford County can be answered with this helpful guide, released Monday. Download .pdf file

The guide points out the recycling locations in the county, and shows where to take stuff like old batteries (Ecoflo, Inc., 2750 Patterson St.), tires (Guilford County Scrap Tire and White Goods Collection Facility, 2138 Bishop Rd.) and other stuff such as yard waste and recyclables.

It also lists contacts for garbage pickup and recycling facilities in other towns across the county.

Greensboro, High Point, Guilford County, Greensboro Beautiful and the Guilford County Department of Public Health teamed up to produce the guide with the financial backing of Volvo Trucks North America, which gets a section to discuss its interest in environmentally safe hazardous waste disposal, recycling and, of course, to plug their trucks.

I'm still waiting to hear back from three commissioners, but it sounds like Guilford County voters will have a bunch of bond choices ahead of them in the May 6 election, with the option to add a quarter-cent sales tax on top of that.

The bond proposals:
-$115 million for a new jail
-$457 million for schools
-$79.5 million for GTCC
-$20.2 million for county parks

The Board of Commissioners will meet tomorrow, which is the cutoff point to get that stuff on the May ballot. Here's tomorrow's agenda.

And there appears to be good support for the quarter-cent sales tax referendum, which would add $15.7 million to the county's revenue.

Things don't look so clear on a proposed economic development incentive policy, though. It's a set of guidelines that give businesses and economic developers an idea of what the commissioners are looking for before they hand out any tax rebates for industries locating here.

Problem is, commissioners need to get on the same page with what they want in the policy.

While it does aim for green industries, technology-based jobs and higher wages, some commissioners feel that it leaves small business in the dust. Then there are commissioners who are generally against any tax incentives for businesses.

If you were writing the policy, who would receive the incentives and what would they get?

UPDATE: Here's the link to the policy draft on the county's website. And the current policy.

If you say you're going to be there, show up
Guilford schools Supt. Terry Grier was on the agenda to pitch $457 million in bonds, but didn't make it to Monday's retreat for the Guilford County Board of Commissioners.
At the end of the presentation by his stand-in, Guilford County school board Chairman Alan Duncan, Commissioner Kay Cashion had one question.
"The agenda said Grier would be with us. Where is he?"
Someone in the in the crowd joked "San Diego."
"He's in the district today," Duncan told Cashion, referring to Guilford, and added that he was taking care of school business.
"We all have jobs, and we're all here," Cashion deadpanned.

Tough act to follow
Money requests from schools, parks, GTCC, and the library all went ahead of David Grantham's presentation on $115 million in bonds for a new jail.
Vaudeville had a rule: Never follow an animal act or a child act.
Grantham, head of the Guilford County Property Management, seemed to have a variation of that in mind when he went to speak.
"I've got to follow libraries and schools with the jail," he said, and chuckled at the irony.
Commissioner Billy Yow saw it another way.
"That's after-school day care, that's what it is," he said.

In the board's annual retreat, the commissioners heard a bit about two new taxes they could put to voters in May and then reviewed two more bond projects that could appear on that same ballot.

They'll likely decide in their Thursday meeting whether to put a request from Guilford County Schools for $457 million in bonds on the May ballot.

If they vote for the school bonds, then voters will choose whether to fund 27 projects such as a new Jamestown Middle School for $28 million, a $58 million high school near Piedmont Triad International Airport, and $7.7 million in heating improvements, along with others.

The same goes for a $115 million bond package for a new Guilford County jail. That would compliment the aging Guilford County Detention Center. The county already has an architecture firm designing the jail.

If voters approve either project in May, the county's property tax rate would probably increase, according to figures that Michael Halford, the county's budget director, provided in the meeting.

That's if the board does nothing to find money elsewhere in the budget, which could also happen through a quarter-cent sales tax or a land transfer tax applied whenever someone buys or sells property -which they could also put on the May ballot.

On Monday morning, the board didn't seem too keen on letting the voters choose their own fate on the taxes. The bond issues may stand a better chance of going to a public vote.

Here's the latest agenda for the Jan. 17 Guilford County Commissioners meeting. There are a bunch of budget amendments in various departments, which often just get voted in one big action. Agenda .pdf file here.

There are a few interesting issues down the agenda, particularly on adopting a new economic development policy.

The commissioners are also expected to discuss the proposed guidelines in their annual retreat on Monday. That's significant because this is the same board that voted against giving tax incentives for an RF Micro expansion last year. The company decided to expand anyway.

We talked with Rob Bencini, the county's economic development director, about some highlights in the proposed plan:

-Emphasize high-paying jobs, such as those that pay within 90 percent of the average wage in the county, which he said is $17.12 an hour.

-New businesses should have a minimum healthcare match for its workers.

-Go after "green" businesses. Bencini said we could recruit ethanol and biodiesel companies to locate here, especially since there's a tank farm in the county.

There are several others, but we'll get into those once the commissioners have had a chance to digest the plan. But Bencini believes that the plan could be one of the most progressive set of guidelines around.

Could this be a new day for economic development policy? Will we see more discretion with handing out the money than we have before?

Are there any other items from the agenda that jump out at you? Let me know, and we'll be sure to check 'em out, too.

Following on the heels of this story regarding the state's purchase of land near the Haw River State Park from a would-be developer, the following news release came from the North Carolina Dept. of Environment and Natural Resources this afternoon:

RALEIGH - Officials with the N.C. Department of Environment and Natural Resources and Bluegreen Corp. have reached an agreement for the state parks system to acquire 692 acres near the headwaters of the Haw River in Guilford and Rockingham counties to expand the developing Haw River State Park. The agreement is subject to approval by the governor and the Council of State.

Total price is $14 million according to the release. (Anyone out there have a sense of whether that's a fair price or not? The comment lines are open.)

Update: Click here for a fact sheet on the Haw Deal.

More from the news release, after the jump.

Scoop's colleague Taft Wireback wrote an update on the Randleman Reservoir today. There's already some discussion going on over at Debatables, where the central questions is whether the folks building the dam have taken to long to tap it. Having a big old new water supply might be useful after all as we are in the midst of a drought.

Here's one bit of feedback from that discussion:

Of course they are moving too slowly. This should have been done in the 1950's with federal money, at 10,000 acres and a recreation lake as originally envisioned. Given the current situation, the others are right -- the main reason that the plant was not done at the same time as the lake was the sheer ineptness of the local politicians.

You really can't lay the long timeframe all on the local politicos. Clearing land, moving roads and jumping through all the environmental hurdles takes time. There have been small matters of upstream sewage plants and the like to deal with as well.

But - you knew there was a but - there has been some feuding over the project. High Point, in particular has had some rough patches with the authority. Consider this excerpt from a July 2003 story about building the very same water treatment plant Wireback wrote about today:

Leaders of the agency building the Randleman Reservoir reviewed the projected costs of their planned water treatment plant Tuesday in response to concerns voiced by High Point officials earlier this year.

Led by City Manager Strib Boynton, High Point officials have been discussing whether the city could save money - as much as $12 million - by not helping build the treatment plant. But John Kime, Piedmont Triad Water Authority executive director, and engineers who work for the authority say that High Point 's estimate must be based on inaccurate information.

During the presentation Tuesday, Kime and engineer Joseph McGougan said the initial water treatment plant would cost about $27.4 million to build and would be able to treat about 12 million gallons of water a day.

That plant's capacity, McGougan said, could be increased to 18 million gallons a day for about $1.5 million. This second estimate is much less than the numbers used by Boynton, Kime said.

"That would be good if they'd put it in writing," said Boynton, who did not attend the meeting. When asked if the estimates offered by Kime allayed his cost concerns, Boynton said he would want High Point engineers to review the numbers.

My understanding is that argument is water under the bridge, but I'm thinking local folks might like to see some water in their taps before too long.

Guilford County commissioners took a step Thursday toward resolving some lingering confusion about exactly where the Guilford-Alamance county line is.

The disagreement involves a fairly small slice of land that includes 27 parcels of property, but it has meant big headaches for some property owners.

Commissioner Carolyn Coleman said some property owners in the area have told her they have received tax bills from both counties. The line has also caused uncertainty about voting and school attendance.

Commissioners passed a resolution Thursday asking the state to survey the area. The results would then be used by the counties to come to a final agreement.

"I'm glad that we finally decided to deal with it," Coleman said.

Hot off the virtual presses over at the School of Government is this year's edition of County Salaries in North Carolina.

Fascinating stuff, I guess. You can look up what Guilford County would pay a PIO - that's public information officer or flac - if the county had one. Or you can comparison shop what different places pay Spanish interpreters.

But who am I kidding. Everyone is going straight to the county commissioners' salary table, right?

Apparently the newsroom has gotten a few calls about an item that ran on A9 of the paper today saying that David Churchill lost his re-election bid for Clerk of Court. Fortunately for Churchill, those were only the Kids Voting results. (Click here to see them.)

While the youngsters would have booted Churchill, their parents and other grown ups elected to keep him in office. He took just over 59 percent of the real vote. We had the results from the vote that actually counts on A1 in Wednesday’s paper.

For those who don’t know what Kids Voting is, click here for more information.

My friend and colleague Nate DeGraff reported in an info-box with his county commissioners story from Thursday that the county has agreed to go with computerized touch-screen machines.

Folks who support a paper-based system are none to happy with that decision.

For context, here's what some other counties are doing:

• The Charlotte O reports that Mecklenburg County has gone with an electronic system similar to Guilford County's choice.
• Buncombe County - and I kid them because I love 'em - wins the "Back to the Future" award. Commissioners there have decided to hand count paper ballots for the May primary, according to the Citizen-Times.
• Carteret County, the site of the really bad debacle in the 2004 election, has chosen an optical scan / paper-based system.

For previous coverage on all of this, click here and/or click here.

UPDATE: After the closed-session, Commissioners Chairman Bruce Davis and Jenks' attorney Seth Cohen got into a verbal sparring match (click here to listen) later joined by Commissioners Linda Shaw and Billy Yow.

In front of newspaper and TV reporters, Cohen accused Davis of slandering Crayton. A minute into the recording, Shaw steps in to point out that Davis was late in paying his own taxes. Later, Yow says that Davis can't carry himself as an elected official, to which Davis responds by turning the insult around and repeating the charge against Yow.

The three-minute recording is somewhat muddled but well worth listening to.

From our county government reporter Nate DeGraff:

GREENSBORO - The N.C. Department of Revenue presented the findings today of its weeks-long inquiry into suspended Guilford County tax director Jenks Crayton.

The state found "no evidence of any wrongdoing" by Crayton as it relates to his duties under the state's property tax statutes, according to a one-page letter to county attorney Jonathan Maxwell from David Baker, director of the property tax division at the N.C. Department of Revenue.

The commissioners were in a private meeting this afternoon with state revenue officials to hear findings of the full report.

"It's wonderful; it's what we expected," said Seth Cohen, Crayton's attorney. "I don't see how the Department of Revenue's report could be stronger."

Democratic commissioners ordered the inquiry after receiving numerous complaints about Crayton from current and former tax department employees, though the commissioners have declined to name names. Crayton has been accused of giving property-tax favors to Republican Steve Arnold and unduly influencing a board that hears property-tax appeals.

Democrats also have fielded complaints about Crayton's management style, though the state inquiry has not addressed those issues

Bonus material: Read Baker's report online here.

(From our soon-to-be county government reporter, Nate DeGraff)

Guilford County's health board has had some wacky meetings of late, what with all the commotion surrounding former health director Ramesh Krishnaraj. Monday's meeting was more run-of-the-mill, though the board discussed the vacant health director post and laid out its 2005-06 budget proposal.

Interested in being health director? You'll be responsible for a 500-employee department with a $30-plus million budget. You'll also follow in the footsteps of Dr. K, who started his tumultuous tenure with a drunken driving charge and weathered a series of closed-door meetings about his performance before finally resigning last fall. Even his resignation was muddied by unclear procedures and possible breaches of North Carolina's laws with regard to contracts and open meetings.

This new job posting lays out the requirements for his replacement. The last two permanent directors have been doctors, but that prerequisite has been dropped this time around. Non-doctors still need a master's in public health administration and five years administrative management experience in health programs or services.

The board hopes to find a new director by July.

The board also laid out its budget request for the 2005-06 fiscal year. The proposal calls for a budget increase of about 4 percent, from $33.8 million to $35.3 million. Pay raises and other wage-related expenses account for most of the jump.

The proposal must be submitted to the county by the end of next week, and board members and staff promised to keep working on it until then. The board of commissioners will probably vote on the budget in June.

Thursday night, after arguing for hours about several other things, the Guilford County Commissioners argued about where their next opportunity to argue would be held.

As we wrote (here and here and here), Commissioner Bruce Davis wants to have the commissioners' annual retreat outside of the county.

But a memo by County Attorney Jonathan Maxwell quotes state law that say the board "shall not vote upon or otherwise transact public business while in attendance at such a gathering," outside the county limits.

At the commissioners' regular meeting Thursday, Republican Billy Yow said he would not go because without the ability to take votes, the retreat is "going to be a touchy feely thing."

Chairman Bruce Davis responded, "at least you won't be there for us to touch and feel on you."

Other Republicans chimed in, saying they don't know how the commissioners can get anything useful done if they aren't allowed to "transact public business."

Commissioner Trudy Wade said she'd "never been to a retreat with this board where we didn't take any votes."

Democratic Vice-Chairman Paul Gibson voiced support for the out-of-county trip saying there's plenty of consensus building that can happen without taking votes.

In the end, the five Republicans on the board voted against setting the meeting but were overruled by the six Democrats. At least there was consensus within each of the two parties.

On the up side, the School of Government, will not charge the county to rent space for the retreat Rental costs had previously been estimated to be about $500.

The Guilford County Commissioners will meet on Thursday, Dec. 2, for the final full meeting of the current board. They are scheduled to decide on their incentive offer to Dell. You can see the agenda by clicking here.

Their next meeting will be the morning of Dec. 2, when the new board will be sworn in.

Kay Cashion will replace Jeff Thigpen on the Guilford County Board of Commissioners. A story will be in Friday's paper.

Guilford County Elections Director George Gilbert tells the Inside Scoop that an election results page (captured here by Ed Cone) is just the result of a scripted test vote of all the precincts in the county.

Alert bloggers Mssrs. Cone, Hoggard and Capo found the page on the county's elections web site showing victories across the board for Republicans with only a couple hundred votes cast.

Gilbert said before every election, elections workers are sent out to every precinct to cast a predetermined test pattern of votes which are sent through the system and tallied as if it were election night. Afterwards, Gilbert checks to make sure the correct number of votes are in the right place. It just happened that those results made it onto the web.

Gilbert said the votes cast in the test will be erased, and all the electronic machines must show zero votes cast before they're opened on Nov. 2. He said there are strict safeguards in place to prevent outright fraud, but conceded that nothing is foolproof.

"If you've got dishonest people, I suppose it can be done," he said.

As for the GOP wins in the test ballot, Gilbert promised to spread the love next time around.

"Tell them to look next time and the Libertarians will win them all," Gilbert said.

So we here at Scoop were having a leisurely morning drinking coffee, reading the papers and mocking the Sunday morning news shows before we decided to check on our e-mail and the blogsphere. And then: holy RSS-reader Batman!

It seems certain parts of the blogspher - namely Cone and Hoggard and Capo (Update: Cone didn't like the honorific used originally in this sentence, so I took it out.) - were all in a tizzy over this link, which doesn't seem to be working any more but has been preserved by Cone here. Google captured the page in early October, though there were fewer votes counted then.

We at Scoop have seen this page before. In fact, it pops up (and disappears) on a fairly regular basis in advance of elections. You can argue with the technological savvy at work here or whether the following explanation should/does hold water. But in the past, the explanation we've gotten from the folks who run the BOE web pages goes something like this:

The Board of Elections wants to make sure everything is going to run nice and smooth election night so they test out their results posting system. They do so with numbers that are way below normal so they won't be mistaken for real results and they don't post a link to the summary pages, so only someone really hunting for them would find them. Obviously, people do find them from time to time.

Scoop will re-inquire on Monday and ask whether a week in advance of an election like this one it's such a good thing to risk getting folks all upset and brewing the conspiracy coffee.

Both the Greensboro City Council and the Guilford County Board of Commissioners will be meeting next week.