Final Thoughts (Hopefully) on Roy v. K
As you're probably aware by now, it turns out that the whole K/Roy flap from a few weeks might have been much ado about nothing.
Check out this article for the background. I don't have the strength to go through it again.
First things first. Kudos to Ken Tysiac of The Charlotte Observer for noting that "Hey, nobody ever got a chance to ask K about this" and posing the question to K on Monday's ACC Teleconference. I think, like a trauma victim, I'd already blocked the whole thing out of my mind.
Next, mea culpa. At the time the whole thing was happening, I was not able to get a hold of the actual audio from the broadcast and was forced to rely on The Buzz's posted quote. While I attributed it to The Buzz, I incorrectly identified it as a "transcript" which it clearly was not. I should have called The Buzz to ask them the source of their quote.
It would have been interesting to see what public reaction would have been like had the correct quote been used originally. Remember, Roy wasn't reacting to what The Buzz posted. The Buzz only received the incorrect quote from its anonymous source after its hosts had been wondering aloud on the air about what had set Roy off on his radio show the night before.
One lingering question is what, exactly, was relayed to Roy? Was he, indeed reacting to K's actual quote?: "(Smith) has not been playing well the last couple of weeks. Again, he hyperextended his knee. You know, we don't put out all our injuries, you know, but we're injured too, you know. I mean everyone's injured."
Or did he, like The Buzz, get an incorrect quote that was more inflammatory?
Oh, and why didn't K put out a quick response when it was clear he was being misrepresented publicly? After all, multiple media outlets - this one included - dutifully asked Duke for a comment from K about it. Maybe it's because this was his feeling about the whole thing:
"It's just stupid. That’s about all I can say. It’s just stupid."
No argument here, but it seems like another PR black-eye for Duke that might have been at least softened if it had been a little more available with information to the press.
Speaking of which, why is it that Duke doesn't "put out" all it's injuries? And why is UNC so forthcoming with each ailment the crops up? My thinking is that it's deep-rooted in the philosophies of both programs.
From what I've heard, UNC's policy goes way back, to the days when gambling was a legitimate problem in the ACC. As the story goes, Dean Smith wanted to make sure his program never had such a taint, so whenever a health issue arose, he publicized it, avoiding any possibility of "inside information" for gamblers to exploit. Plus, UNC is a public university, "the people's university." Being open about such things may be considered to be in line with its mission statement.
As for Duke, I've always thought K's stance toward publicizing injuries is connected to his military background. First, he usually operates on a "need to know" basis. Anyone who's ever watched former Marine Tom O'Brien in action in a N.C. State press conference has seen the same thing at work. Second, I think K doesn't like to publicize injuries before a game because he doesn't want to give that injured player a ready-made excuse. The theory being that if K mentions that a particular player has a problem, then that player becomes more accepting of his limitations, rather than fighting through them.
Now, having said that, K has always been willing to mention an injury after the fact. His detractors will say that it's a self-serving approach, usually revising history after a loss. His supporters will say it's his way of keeping one of his players from being unjustly ripped after a poor performance.
What do I think? I think I can't believe I just spent this much time and space rehashing a subject that seemed trite even when it was incorrectly brought to the public several weeks ago.
Comments (22)
To report abuse of the comment feature on this site, please use the feedback form at the bottom of any page.
I think you are an idiot. You are still trying to a blame Coach K for something he didn't say and taking up for Williams acting like a jerk who flew off the handle. Please have a Carolina fan tell me again how their coaches NEVER curse!
Posted on March 4, 2008 7:27 PM
I think you are an idiot. You are still trying to a blame Coach K for something he didn't say and taking up for Williams acting like a jerk who flew off the handle. Please have a Carolina fan tell me again how their coaches NEVER curse!
Posted on March 4, 2008 7:27 PM
Wow Susan! Too much caffeine, maybe, huh? While its since been acknowledged that Coach k did not make the comments attributted to him initially, the writer's comments are merely stating that each school handles injury reporting differently and gives reasoning for both. Please explain to me what part of this article is anti-Duke and not just reporting. I think some of us are being a little thin skinned.
Posted on March 5, 2008 12:52 PM
And also Susan...dont you think that your post is a prime example of someone misunderstanding a quote or comment and then going a little overboard in response?...think about it
Posted on March 5, 2008 12:56 PM
Still feels like you're making excuses. "Well, I seriously goofed, but why didn't x y and z happen? That's the real story!"
Well, no -- the real story is a media writer who was sloppy. I'm glad to get your "mea culpa," but too little, too late, and in the words of Coach K, too stupid. You took this long to sort this out?
Posted on March 6, 2008 6:28 AM
Why should K get invovled in the first place? Roy has been lobbing verbal hand grenades at Duke and Coach K all year, and he's never responded. Not even when Roy suggested he may "develop a bad back" if his team doesn't do well. Real classy Roy. Bottom line, Roy cannot compose himself in front of the media. Remember the profanity infuse tirade to Bonnie Bernstein. He needs to get his insecurities relating to Duke under control or this could get even more embarrassing for the "university of the people" really fast.
Obviously you are attempting to vilify Coach K through whatever means necessary. No need to hide that Duke hate. Just embrace it. Then you and Roy can suck down Cokes on a golf course together somewhere and blather to each other about how you hate Duke. And how it's so hard to bait Coach K into a war of words.
As for the differences in how the two schools publicize their injuries, that cuts both ways. Dean's tale of using it to limit gambling was just that, a fairy tale. Dean was a tactician, just like K. He knows that an injury publicized before the game will get more attention and can be used as a built-in excuse following a loss or a "we overcame all odds" sentiment following a win. The same thing you attack K for, Dean and his lackluster protege Roy, have been doing for years, but in a slightly different way. It's gamesmanship and can be argued either way.
Posted on March 6, 2008 8:29 AM
No one has got this right. You are too Young! Wallace W♠ade is the one who made a practice of not giving out info on injuries before the game. Wade wouldn't give you the color of his pickup!
Eddie Cameron codified it into policy as Athletic Director to every Dukie's consternation. K was just following tradition.
Do you remember Charlie Justice standing on the sidelines at the Polo Grounds hard hat in tow against Lujack's Irish? Justice never got in the game but he was a great decoy! Carl Snavley wasn't about to let ND not prepare for Justice which was Wade's type reasoning all along.
Clay P. '46
Posted on March 6, 2008 8:40 AM
Wow- Jim, you've really ignited a firestorm. To be fair to everyone, the perceived carolina bias you get from Mr. Young is his professionalism as a journalist coming through- he is actually a Duke alumnus. Nice article, insane topic. Having just moved to Charlotte from Columbus, Ohio, it's just nice to be around the BEST rivalry in sports again. Roy has and always will be insecure- incredible that his "hazing" of K with the "bad back" comment a few years ago never really made the press- but knowing that the NC press (Jim Young aside) has been notoriously anti-Duke, pro-UNC and unprofessional in its lac of objectivity the past few years, it's not surprising. Nice information Clay P. Nice article Jim.
Go Duke!
Posted on March 6, 2008 9:38 AM
So let me get this straight. Coach K makes himself available to the media and offers his quote regarding injuries. The media twists his quote (perhaps intentionally?) to get a rise out of Roy and succeeds. The media has a field day (several days, in fact) reporting on this renewed feud. Then, the author of this article rips Coach K for not being more accessible and correcting the media's mistakes sooner. Jim, c'mon, no need to go all Bilas on us and bend over backwards to show how unbiased you are towards you alma mater through repeated criticism (if in fact you are a Dukie).
Posted on March 6, 2008 10:01 AM
I think the article still ignores something very obvious. You ask, why didn't K defend himself in the media? Well, why didn't Roy just call K up to ask him about the comments? If in fact Roy did hear the audio or have a real transcript, I think most would agree he would have been very presumptive and probably paranoid if he had responded to what we now know as the actual transcript. Therefore, its likely that what Roy got was 2nd hand paraphrasing. Why take it to the media and make a big deal, why not just go directly to K.
Perhaps, just perhaps, K prefers to settle these things in a personal manner, rather than going to the media. Roy has certainly given him opportunity to do so. "Some teams don't have to play Clemson twice..." He must have meant Virginia, right? Or how about joking in front of the Rams Club about maybe having to miss a season because of a bad back? Wonder where that joke came from and I also wonder what the reaction in the media would be if K was reported to have made some "vertigo/fainting" jokes in front of some Duke boosters this summer.
Another PR black eye for Duke? Maybe, but Coach K would probably go nuts if he spent his time and energy trying to correct the media's stupid mistakes. This PR black eye would also call into question the validity of some of the media beatings Duke has taken in the past.
In the end, you still try to blame Coach K for not preventing this; however, it was the media and Roy who over-reacted and made assumptions without checking the facts, doing research, or anyone just bothering to check with K about the whole thing. Now what exactly did K do?
(yet you still assert that Duke is the one with the black eye)
Posted on March 6, 2008 10:24 AM
Butch...
It was Matt Doherty who said that quote about "developing a bad back", not Roy. And no knowledgeable fan will accuse Matt Doherty of having tons of class.
Posted on March 6, 2008 11:45 AM
Drew - Bingo! Ditto! We have a winner!
The "PR black eye" here is on the face of the media, without whom Coach Bristle-Shucks would not have had cause to flail about, ultimately giving himself a matching shiner.
It's not on Coach K or Duke, and to imply or state that it is simply perpetuates the original gaffe and negate the lame attempt at a mea culpa..."I know it's my fault, but you could have and should have fixed it for me."
A misquote, flamed into a brush fire, and Duke is supposed to put it out and apologize to the arsonist? Please...!
Posted on March 6, 2008 12:20 PM
Good grief. WHO CARES? Coach K won't let something "Redneck Roy" said get under his skin anyway. You can tell how much Coach K cares about it. He didn't even bother issuing a response to it. The reason? It was a stupid comment from Mr. Williams to begin with. This is SOOO not a big deal.
Posted on March 6, 2008 2:34 PM
Wow indeed.
First an update. In answer to my question about what Roy was told on Monday night, according to the N&O - "UNC broadcaster Woody Durham, among others, relayed the gist of Krzyzewski's postgame comments to Williams before Williams' weekly radio show."
Okay, let me see if I can go address these comments on a post-by-post basis.
Posts No. 1 &2 - Susan, I'm not going to dispute your "idiot" label. But did you have to send it twice. That hurts. Journalists have feelings too you know.
Posts No. 3 & 4 - Thanks Ben. I'd heard stories about a reader who defended members of the media, but I'd always assumed it was just a myth, like the Yeti or his North American cousin, the Sasquatch.
Posts No. 5 - Yes, Jen, I probably am a bit slow (see Susan's posts - 1 &2) But the reason it took this long to sort out was because we never heard from K about this until the Monday teleconference.
Post No. 6 - Butch, I don't think I'm going to take you up on that suggestion to embrace my Duke hate. And even if I did, I seriously doubt Roy would want to share a Coke with me on the golf course.
Post No. 7 - Clay, I've got nothing to add to your post except to say I think it's awesome that someone who graduated from college in 1946 is posting on blogs.
Post No. 8 - Thanks for outing me Ro. Now I'll get lots of email from UNC folks claiming I'm clearly biased toward Duke because I graduated from there. By the way, as a sports writer, I believe I'm probably one of the lowest earning members of the Class of '''95.
Post No. 9 - Kevin W. I still don't think you have it straight (don't worry, I probably don't either). K made his comments on his post-game radio show to Bob Harris, not to the rest of the media. No one from "the media" relayed K's comments to Roy. Woody Durham did, and I don't know exactly how he paraphrased them. And I'm not "ripping" K for not addressing it sooner. I'm just asking why he didn't do it. Maybe as he said, he just thought the whole thing was "stupid." But by not addressing it, a lot of folks around the country believed he said something that he really didn't.
Post No. 10 - Drew, you bring up a good point. It reminds me of the whole Gerald Henderson-Tyler Hansbrough incident. Before the first game UNC and Duke played this season we asked each coach if they'd talked to each other privately about what happened. They both said they hadn't. Kind of surprising, but I guess that's just the way it is between the two.
Posted on March 6, 2008 3:26 PM
Steve -
It wasn't Doherty, that quote was attributed to Roy Williams by Rams Club members.
But hey, not the first time UNC has thrown Doherty under the bus.
Posted on March 6, 2008 7:00 PM
Jim,
Actually, since you mention it. Roy and Tyler and most of the UNC team agreed that they felt Henderson actions were unintentional, flagrant, but not a shot.
The feud between K and Roy regarding the incident, had more to do with yet another K misquote by someone in the media. Roy took offense when someone in the media found him after the game and told him that K said that Tyler should have been out of the game at that point. Roy responded in a similar manner to his recent outburst based on a K misquote. What K actually said was that with 14 seconds left and the game decided for some time, both players, Henderson and Hansbrough should have been out of the game - which changes things a bit considering he is himself sharing in the blame with that comment.
This again goes to my points that 1) The media needs to do a better job; 2) K and Roy need to talk, we hear about them calling to congratulate one another for certain accomplishments, so why not stuff like this; and 3) Roy really needs to get all of the facts before making accusations based on second-hand info. He himself has voiced his distaste with the media and internet and rumor and speculation that goes on....so why not practice that belief and stop believing everything anyone tells him second hand about K?
Posted on March 6, 2008 7:10 PM
Roy Williams needs to just shut the f*^% up and worry about his team instead of flying off the handle at every stupid press report.
Posted on March 7, 2008 11:02 AM
Post No. 9 - Kevin W. I still don't think you have it straight (don't worry, I probably don't either). K made his comments on his post-game radio show to Bob Harris, not to the rest of the media. No one from "the media" relayed K's comments to Roy. Woody Durham did, and I don't know exactly how he paraphrased them. And I'm not "ripping" K for not addressing it sooner. I'm just asking why he didn't do it. Maybe as he said, he just thought the whole thing was "stupid." But by not addressing it, a lot of folks around the country believed he said something that he really didn't.
But here's the problem, Jim [and I say this as a fellow member of the media]—the fault here lies with the folks in the media who failed to do the simple job of reporting properly by checking their facts. I think Steve above provided an apt analogy. If members of the sports media do their job properly, this never becomes news.
Posted on March 7, 2008 1:03 PM
Ummm, let's see.
1) "YOU" make a series of high school journalist mistakes (don't check the source, attribute a quote falsely, make up information that makes it more credible ("transcript")
2) Coach Williams cusses in the national press -- again -- and acts like a 6 year old
but DUKE has a PR black eye?
I can't believe you actually published that.
What happens if Duke (or K) issues a statement that says "I didn't say that?" The fact is that the ABD crowd will believe what it wants, including those ABD'ers that professionally should be nothing of the sort. I'm sure even after the "clearing up of the flap," there will be plenty of finger pointing from the baby blues about something Coach K allegedly said.
You act like Mike needs to apologize to the press for not doing their jobs for them, when the apology should be coming from somewhere 8 miles south.
Posted on March 7, 2008 4:22 PM
Jim-
Sorry for outing you (just wanted to report the facts). Should I have insisted you went to carolina (and insulted you instead)? Needless to say, have been reading your work and have to say that I am very impressed by your objectivity (Although I have to say that it makes some of your classmates/Duke fans cringe at times). When the NC press has been lambasted for cheering on the Duke loss in the NCAAs last year- your objectivity is refreshing. GO DUKE!
ro
Posted on March 8, 2008 10:33 AM
No one gets what is going on here. In simple terms these two coaches hate each other. It's a professional hate since they often recruit for the same players. It was easy for Roy to believe the comment by K was true because it sounds just like something Coach Kry would say. A-holes have a tendency to make smart azzed comments. K didn't correct it because in his mind he probably thought he said it. And if he didn't at least he thought he inferred it...
Posted on March 10, 2008 2:53 AM
http://used-car-price-value.thehelpfulhelp.net/gay-teen-boy-free-gallery.html > gay teen boy free gallery http://used-car-price-value.thehelpfulhelp.net/north-plainfield-used-car-prices.html > north plainfield used car prices [url= http://used-car-price-value.thehelpfulhelp.net/nude-fitness-chick.html ] nude fitness chick [/url][url= http://free-onionbooty.thehelpfulhelp.net/love-hina-hentai-doujinshi.html ] love hina hentai doujinshi [/url][url= http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/woman-doing-yoga-nude.html ] woman doing yoga nude [/url]http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/hardcore-lesbian-video.html > hardcore lesbian video [url= http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/measuring-penis-size.html ] measuring penis size [/url]http://fat-fingering-girl.thehelpfulhelp.net/drunk-girl-rate.html > drunk girl rate [url= http://free-onionbooty.thehelpfulhelp.net/2006-sandee-westgate.html ] 2006 sandee westgate [/url]http://fat-fingering-girl.thehelpfulhelp.net/adult-chat-cyber.html > adult chat cyber [url= http://used-car-price-value.thehelpfulhelp.net/paris-hilton-lesbian-video.html ] paris hilton lesbian video [/url][url= http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/young-junior-model.html ] young junior model [/url]http://used-car-price-value.thehelpfulhelp.net/carmichael-dmv.html > carmichael dmv [url= http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/average-penis-size-survey.html ] average penis size survey [/url][url= http://used-car-price-value.thehelpfulhelp.net/fingering-girl-self.html ] fingering girl self [/url]http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/amateur-pussy-licking.html > amateur pussy licking [url= http://free-onionbooty.thehelpfulhelp.net/lesbian-xxx-video.html ] lesbian xxx video [/url]http://adult-chat-transsexual.thehelpfulhelp.net/black-dick-my-wife.html > black dick my wife [url= http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/hot-black-chick-nude.html ] hot black chick nude [/url][url= http://fat-fingering-girl.thehelpfulhelp.net/drunk-flashing-girl.html ] drunk flashing girl [/url]http://free-onionbooty.thehelpfulhelp.net/old-pussy-sucking.html > old pussy sucking [url= http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/black-dick-whitechicks.html ] black dick whitechicks [/url]http://adult-chat-transsexual.thehelpfulhelp.net/little-nude-chick.html > little nude chick http://adult-chat-transsexual.thehelpfulhelp.net/young-model-top-site.html > young model top site [url= http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/drunk-girl-making.html ] drunk girl making [/url]http://adult-chat-transsexual.thehelpfulhelp.net/adult-chat-room-xxx.html > adult chat room xxx http://free-onionbooty.thehelpfulhelp.net/skinny-puppy-girl.html > skinny puppy girl http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/adult-chat-edmonton-forum-in.html > adult chat edmonton forum in http://used-car-price-value.thehelpfulhelp.net/adult-chat-network.html > adult chat network [url= http://adult-chat-transsexual.thehelpfulhelp.net/free-xx-password.html ] free xx password [/url]http://used-car-price-value.thehelpfulhelp.net/hentai-xx.html > hentai xx [url= http://free-onionbooty.thehelpfulhelp.net/dmv-plumas.html ] dmv plumas [/url]http://fat-fingering-girl.thehelpfulhelp.net/free-big-tit-porn-trailer.html > free big tit porn trailer http://free-onionbooty.thehelpfulhelp.net/young-german-model.html > young german model [url= http://fat-fingering-girl.thehelpfulhelp.net/old-pussy-movie.html ] old pussy movie [/url][url= http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/chloe-vevrier-free-video.html ] chloe vevrier free video [/url]http://used-car-price-value.thehelpfulhelp.net/sandee-westgate-blog.html > sandee westgate blog http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/top-young-model.html > top young model [url= http://free-onionbooty.thehelpfulhelp.net/young-model-bbs.html ] young model bbs [/url][url= http://free-onionbooty.thehelpfulhelp.net/adult-xx.html ] adult xx [/url]http://fat-fingering-girl.thehelpfulhelp.net/adult-chat-room-sex.html > adult chat room sex [url= http://used-car-price-value.thehelpfulhelp.net/richardson-used-car-price.html ] richardson used car price [/url]http://adult-chat-transsexual.thehelpfulhelp.net/old-pussy-fuck.html > old pussy fuck [url= http://adult-chat-transsexual.thehelpfulhelp.net/black-chick-nude.html ] black chick nude [/url]http://used-car-price-value.thehelpfulhelp.net/porn-site-with-free-trailer.html > porn site with free trailer [url= http://free-onionbooty.thehelpfulhelp.net/caught-fingering-girl.html ] caught fingering girl [/url][url= http://fingering-girl-themselves-video.thehelpfulhelp.net/nude-wife-forum.html ] nude wife forum [/url]http://free-onionbooty.thehelpfulhelp.net/nude-white-chick.html > nude white chick [url= http://fat-fingering-girl.thehelpfulhelp.net/guilty-gear-xx.html ] guilty gear xx [/url]http://fat-fingering-girl.thehelpfulhelp.net/teen-xx.html > teen xx
Posted on May 22, 2008 1:11 PM