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I try to keep first dates to dessert and a coffee or something to that effect. That way the date is only 15-30 minutes if we end up not liking each other. We'll stay and talk longer if things are going great.

If your first real sit-down conversation is over a meal, you're not social enough with individuals.

If you really hook up with that person, you'll be sharing a lifetime of meals. It seems shamefully petty to equate romance with a single meal's quality. You did the guy a favor.

If you want positive advice, you could have chosen the next place to dine or you could just talk somewhere. The meal isn't why you're there, I hope.

Idiot Savant -

Good plan. I'm all for a short, sweet date that can be ended without pressure and extended if you hit things off.

A lot of my friends choose wine bars as the hot spot for a first date. Does alcohol cloud the mix there for you? Or is chardonnay a good alternative to coffee?

Sometimes the meal is all thats left to look forward to. You can have "real sit-down conversations" at a lake or even on a paddle boat. besides, what if the person turns out to be an obnoxiously finicky eater? The first half of the conversation will be about what they don't like, what they don't eat, what they are allergic to, what they don't do and why they don't like to do whatever else. Thats a real turn off. At that point, leaving your cell phone on and getting a phone call, even if its a wrong number, is a Godsend.

ginger,

coffee or chardonnay...hmmm..I have a weird thought about that. You can't just "leave" with the chardonnay. If the date is going badly and you have no interest any more but are trying to let the guy down easy, its going to be a little too obvious if you turn up a glass of wine. The coffee you can take with you or if its in a restaurant mug, it wasn't as expensive as the wine.

I would go for a chi tea...something that would calm my nerves but leave me coherent enough not to say anything stupid.

I guess our differences in what we are trying to get out of a date come down to personality types. Excluding dangerous people, I'm pretty adaptable to most people and can find a reason to enjoy most people. You both seem to have more of a results-oriented perspective to the dating experience. While your approach limits your experiences, it also helps you filter out some things you can't conceive of appreciating, which is fair to both you and your date.

All's fair, I guess. At least you have a nice meal to show for your socialization.

I've had some awesome and crappy times I wouldn't have otherwise experienced by being patient enough to see the world through another's eyes.

Savant, that girl was probably telling you her problems at a meal to see if you could handle it and listen, probably. You planned for an exit and you got it.

I'm hearing what Massey's got to say here - if you've got a bit of a feel for your date before the meal itself, chances are you won't need to consider an exit strategy. That takes a little bit of emphasis about where y'all do your dining. Then you've got the time to let your date's attitude do more talking than where you happen to be eating.

Of course, it's also tough not to equate the locale with your date's personality sometimes. But that gets tricky. A dive bar could be a cheapskate's hotspot or a go-to place for an interesting guy who doesn't want to pull any punches. If some Ivy Leaguer wants to take you uptown, he could be pouring on the pretense, or he could really get off on the gourmandy scene. People like that stuff.

Like pretty much everything with dating, you'll probably get folks in a couple of camps on the eats issue.

Massey -

What you're saying about seeing thing through someone else's eyes totally makes sense to me. And I'm the first to admit that I'm not always good at doing that - just like I'll admit that I can be way too quick to judge.

For me, though, the restaurant issue is about style.

Some joints - a lot of national chains, TGI Friday-style places - just aren't as exciting as a local restaurant or something a little further off the beaten path. Where you take me to eat - or get coffee, a glass of wine or whatever you choose to kick things off - says something about you - your sense of adventure and your interest in impressing me on a first date.

You say you've had some "awesome and crappy times." Care to share?

I think the locale of the date, whether it is a meal or whatever you do, says a lot about the person planning the date.

I prefer the low-key, non-chain, type of place for a first date outing--it's just my style--likely because I work long hours and prefer going somewhere simple where the focus is the conversation with a side of some local food that doesn't require 500 more decisions to be made. That said, I think I do go into a date with an expectation of what I'm looking for in someone I see a longer term future with. The points on my list are fairly general, but a fine dining experience would definitely not make the cut (likely because I hate the order and formal feeling of it all).

I agree that going somewhere simple can often be equated with being cheap, but is a first date really worth an expensive meal anyway? I think the context of whether the place is chain restaurant or a local place has more of an impact on my impression of who I'm on the date with than how much it costs. Chain places mean no style, no thought in my book.

I usually insist on lunch as a first date. I think, especially in this circumstance, the guy wanting fine dining went into the date just wanting someone to date, and not really being interested in the person they were there with.

"Care to share", okay.

First, in defense of the national chains, sometimes is nice to go to a place where you know exactly what to expect and have service emphasized over style. It excludes the possibility of the restaurant divining too much about you, like Sasquatch referred to. There's a reason they do so well beyond location-saturation. A restaurant can sometimes just be a place to eat while you get to know someone better .

No two people are the same. You can't exclude or include someone in your life because of a previous experience and develop a "type" you like or dislike based on those experiences. There are too many factors.

An example: One of ex's was an overachiever. Snobby , bossy, and impatient. Three qualities that should drive me nuts. She was also honest, experienced, and hilarious. We still talk frequently and are starting a business together soon.

My present g/f is depressed, self-absorbed, and undereducated. Three things I'd usually blackball a girl for. Yet, she's unquestionably bright, stunningly aware, and exquisitely sympathetic. Three things I'd usually care little about. We haven't watched an hour of tv since we met each other 4 months ago (and I used to be a comedy channel/adult swim junkie).

(metaphor alert.)In some cases, the relationship is about the bridge and not the two islands it connects.

massey,

You can tell when someone is just plain negative and when they are trying to see how much you can handle in terms of their problems.

Ginger,

My favorite horrorible date was when we made it through the appetizers and she tells me that she has decided to get back together with her old boyfriend.

My favorite amazing date was a cook-off... we met at the corner bar and had talked about the different types of food that we liked and which ones the other should try. We played a game of paper, rock, scissors to decide whose apartment the other one would go to. I lost so i had to cook my stuff ahead of time and bring it over to her place. I'm not sure who won that cook-off, but I've loved sushi ever since.

Massey -

Well, relationships do have more complexity.

That's the beauty, to me, of a first date. You get a first impression. You love it or leave it - or maybe you decide to give it more time.

In a relationship, sure, you're going to find things you don't like. And they'll likely be offset - like you said - by the things about a person that make you smile or set you on fire.

But my feeling about first dates is that if I dislike something about a guy initially - and that includes whether they're adventurous or just vanilla in their choice of dining, fine or otherwise - that's probably not going to change.

After all, it's not as if there aren't plenty of other guys out there.

adventurous or vanilla...

hmmm I have moments where I'm a Juice Shop. smoothie and others where I'm a Coke Float.

I dont see the point of throwing in all the additives in a Polar Peach smoothie but i do it anyway.

I'm the kind of person that will drink all of the coke out of a coke float and then fill it back up with coke trying to get the same effect. it never happens but it still tastes good. the sugar high and brain freeze at once is classic.

Idiot Savant -

I took down the duplicate posts. Comments seem to be posting kind of slow today.

Gracias. I thought it was my computer and clicked 2 too many times.

I'll have to concede a little to Savant. There are plenty of times where you and the other person aren't "in the right place" to make a connection, no matter how much patience is invested. At least wait to the end of the meal and end it graciously. Greensboro's a big small town. You never know in what situation you might meet that person again, in a new job, your kid's school, or a prosecuting attorney in a traffic case (which has happened to me, she dismissed it). Little things add up.